I need some opinions

Tim McElwain

A discussion has arisen concerning qualifications to install and service gas heating equipment, specifically Forced Hot Water and Steam.



The general consensus is that any electrician or oil burner technician who is licensed can definitely wire and service gas equipment of any kind under 400,000 BTU's with no training needed. This includes both natural gas and propane.



On the installation side a plumber or pipe-fitter can install and service gas equipment with no formal training.



Statement from several folks who have the power to make these decisions. I quote," A license once issued and followed with proper CEU's on a local level is more than sufficient training to meet any of the required criteria for gas heating equipment in the hydronic realm". "Further more the local gas company is highly qualified to certify anyone to do this work as they are the service and installation experts". end of quotes.



What say ye!

DanHolohan

Sounds like

those folks could use some advanced learning.



http://www.heatinghelp.com/article/191/Supply-House-Times-articles/2381/Advanced-Learning-April-2012

icesailor

Understandings:

It's my understanding that in MA, with oil burners, only a licensed oil burner technician can wire a replacement from the service switch. And they can replace controls and wire it. There is some special permitting process. I've never gotten involved. I always tell them (the electricians) to just wire it. If it doesn't work, I'll fix it. It works for me.

As far as gas, I've never heard that about gas, because only plumbers/gas-fitters and LP gas installers are licensed and I've never heard any squawk about them wanting to wire their stuff. I hear a lot more from heaters wanting to be plumbers and connecting boilers and water heaters. Apprentice for 5 years and do 500 hours of clasrom instruction and take a test. Like we all did.

IMO, the statement that gas suppliers have the knowledge is stupid because they all want to get out of the service business and only sell gas. Service and employees to do it affects their bottom line. That's why Tea Pot Boilers are the perfect thing for the gas industry. Big bucks for the equipment, no one to service it, and when it defecates in the bed, the know nothing service person will condemn it and try to sell a new one. And it is sold as "Green". Green for the environment, Green into the pockets of the Wall Street Banksters.

With the current disaster in MA concerning the Sheet Metal Licenses, I shudder to think what would happen if they tried to license gas service technicians.

So Tim, for my answer to your question, the only requirement you need to service gas equipment is the balls to potentially blow yourself up.

With oil, you need to have a license to keep the dragon from kissing you in the face.

I wish I knew a lot more about it though.

Plumdog_2

My Opinion

Around these parts (Colorado) the guys from the gas company do not do installs or much service at all. That goes for both Natural Gas and LP suppliers. Works well for us, as they refer us to customers in need of such work. But out there in the East, it sounds like the desk jockeys at the gas companies are living at Fantasy Island.

bill nye_3

Tim

From what I have seen through the years is that an electrician is the last person you would want to wire heating equipment. Many admit they don't have a clue. But don't get me wrong, there are many licensed electricians who are absolute professionals and are very capable, unfortunately they are in the minority.



Many people can "get the thing to work" but have no idea that they have by-passed safety circuits, etc. You really have to understand controls, safeties, and sequence of events. Diagrams and color codes are nice but it takes a real technician to see past all that and make the equipment perform safely and correctly. To steal the phrase from Dan "You have to see it in your mind's eye".



I would say special training should be required to wire and install gas or oil heating equipment. The older stuff was much simpler, new stuff has a lot of electronics and circuit boards and computers. A lot harder for old rednecks like myself to troubleshoot, you can't just short stuff out with a screwdriver or a jumper wire any more. You let all of the smoke out of the wires.



I think factory training on specialized equipment is an absolute must. So much time and parts could be saved if the technician didn't "see it for the first time" in your basement. There are a lot of old fashioned companies that feel if they have licensed people no further training is necessary. They(techs) can't make any money sitting in a classroom, you have to be in some ones basement making revenue.  Oh but how much money could they save the company in recalls or customer satisfaction with a little classroom time ?



It is sad but I spend great deal of time fixing or undoing what others have done to the equipment, job security, but not in a good way.

Harvey Ramer

License and diplomas do not create knowledge.

I sincerely doubt if there is any way to determine if an individual is qualified to perform good work across the whole HVAC spectrum. There are so many skilled trades involved and each one offers limitless possibilities and is very unforgiving. There are people who have never had a license in there life that I trust implicitly. I also know people with every document and certifications that I would not trust with a gas grill.

One thing is sure. No one can become knowing without doing. But at the same time no one should be doing without knowing:)

I'm glad I don't have to make the call.

Harvey Ramer

License and diplomas do not create knowledge.

I sincerely doubt if there is any way to determine if an individual is qualified to perform good work across the whole HVAC spectrum. There are so many skilled trades involved and each one offers limitless possibilities and is very unforgiving. There are people who have never had a license in there life that I trust implicitly. I also know people with every document and certifications that I would not trust with a gas grill.

One thing is sure. No one can become knowing without doing. But at the same time no one should be doing without knowing:)

I'm glad I don't have to make the call.

Harvey Ramer

License and diplomas do not create knowledge.

I sincerely doubt if there is any way to determine if an individual is qualified to perform good work across the whole HVAC spectrum. There are so many skilled trades involved and each one offers limitless possibilities and is very unforgiving. There are people who have never had a license in there life that I trust implicitly. I also know people with every document and certifications that I would not trust with a gas grill.

One thing is sure. No one can become knowing without doing. But at the same time no one should be doing without knowing:)

I'm glad I don't have to make the call.

Harvey Ramer

Still getting used to my iPad.

Hence the repeating comments.

Tim McElwain

Here is the dilema

with the price of oil soaring and everyone going over to gas, many companies who in the past did no gas work of any kind now want to start doing some kind of gas business. It may be on the Propane side delivery and also service. On the Natural gas side the installation of equipment, conversion burners etc. They do not however meet the license requirements or certifications to be able to do this work.



Certain local Authorities Having Jurisdiction are trying to bend over backwards to allow this expansion of business without any actual licensing, certification or at least training. Now those who have been doing this and have gone through the licensing are really upset that they have this new competition and the installation, service and related nightmares are real scary. Do not mis-understand these individuals do have a license it is just not directly related to Natural Gas or Propane installation or service. In some instances the state does not require a license in order to do service on gas equipment so it is open season for anyone who wants to do this work.



I have dozens of inquiries about my training everyday, but really no definite commitment to get the training. I have a week of training scheduled for May 14 through 18 and no one signed up. Most who call state that they do not need the training as they have been doing oil or some other related installation of similar equipment to gas. They are calling me looking for a way around the licensing or certification process. Next week I have a three day "Combustion Testing Designed Gas Equipment Class", one person signed up. I do have a night class running for licensing here in the state of RI and that is paying the bills but I really am afraid to think about what is going on in the way of installations and service from these folks with no or very little training

Harvey Ramer

Tim, Design a test that is to be done without a

textbook. Everything that an individual should know to provide comfort safely. Different formulas and stuff that we have memorized. Reasons for doing something a certain way, ect...

Those who pass should be issued a license and those who don't should not do unsupervised work until they educate themselves further. Every move an uncertified person makes should be inspected by a code enforcement officer that is well versed in the field.



My opinion.

Harvey

Tim McElwain

This is more politics

than it is who is qualified. Certain groups have a very strong hold on certification and licensing bodies and they protect their own.



I recently gave such a test to several Masters in a certain trade, it was on gas related material that any licensed individual should know. They all failed the test. It was an open book test that I allowed them to take home.

Steve_152

gas....

in the  wonderful state of Maine....we need  licenses  for   propane  & nat gas...also  elact.....plumbing...oil...etc.../    state needs  their  nickles  & dimes...