Thinking about a new vehicle for your business

Tim McElwain

<ul><li><a href="http://r.smartbrief.com/resp/dAuFBYgqdOCczliWCicOiyCicNUUCi?format=standard">Propane autogas is becoming more common in U.S.</a></li><li></li><li>

<img src="http://cdn.smartbrief.com/images/briefs2/common/storyicons2/icon_video.gif" width="75" height="69" alt="" />The use of propane autogas as fuel for vehicles is gaining popularity in the U.S. as more fleet operators convert their fleets to autogas, according to this article. About 200,000 of the 15 million autogas vehicles around the world are operating in the U.S., Alliance AutoGas said. Propane autogas is also more accessible than gasoline blended with 85% ethanol, according to the Department of Energy, with 2,670 autogas pumps installed across the U.S., compared with 2,498 E85 fueling stations. <a href="http://r.smartbrief.com/resp/dAuFBYgqdOCczliWCicOiyCicNUUCi?format=standard">[u][color=#0000ff]DomesticFuel.com[/color][/u]</a><span style="color:#666666"> (4/2)</span> <img src="http://cdn.smartbrief.com/images/briefs2/common/sm_share.gif" width="34" height="14" alt="" /> <a href="http://r.smartbrief.com/resp/dAuFBYgqdOCczljsCicOiyCicNJLXM"><img src="http://cdn.smartbrief.com/images/briefs2/common/linkedin.gif" width="14" height="14" alt="LinkedIn" /></a> <a href="http://r.smartbrief.com/resp/dAuFBYgqdOCczljtCicOiyCicNSPmx"><img src="http://cdn.smartbrief.com/images/briefs2/common/facebook.gif" width="14" height="14" alt="Facebook" /></a> <a href="http://r.smartbrief.com/resp/dAuFBYgqdOCczljuCicOiyCicNdnrw"><img src="http://cdn.smartbrief.com/images/briefs2/common/twitter.gif" width="14" height="14" alt="Twitter" /></a> <a href="http://r.smartbrief.com/resp/dAuFBYgqdOCczljvCicOiyCicNpfDZ"><img src="http://cdn.smartbrief.com/images/briefs2/common/btn_email_story_gray1.gif" width="45" height="14" alt="Email this Story" /></a> </li></ul>

Boiler Talk

Natural Gas automobiles

I've driven these vehicles.  My office has Chevy Cavaliers and those are old cars now.  These cars run on gasoline and natural gas.  These are retrofits and the natural gas tank is in the trunk so you have little space.  I have had to pump my own gas and pump the natural gas as well.  It is a bit harder to work the natural gas pump, particularly connecting and disconnecting the nozzle to the car.  It requires some thought and steps unlike gasoline.  I suppose you don't want to smoke here either.  The connectors are very much like those plastic or brass ones you purchase for garden hoses.    Pull the collar back and slip on the car.  Pull the collar back off comes the nozzle.  It takes a bit more time but you can hear it fill so you get an idea of when it's full.  That's my experience, but it could be different now with more modern equipment. 

Paul48

I

worked down in Texas almost 30 years ago now. It seemed as though every other pickup truck you saw, was running propane back then. Tim..........It seems we have some catching up to do.

Tim McElwain

I worked for a public utility

(Providence Gas Company) and one of the vans I drove was a converted to Propane vehicle late 1960"s and it was terrible, the fuel lines used to freeze up and other problems. later I drove a propane fueled Ford Van dedicated from the factory for Propane and it was fantastic. Then later in the 70's, 80's and 90's I drove a CNG Ford Van and then later a Ford car all running fantastic on CNG. The fuel hookups have drastically improved at this point. There is going to be a trade show with Autogas vehicles on display this Friday in Cranston Rhode Island. It is really the way to go for the future. The maintenance costs are drastically cut and we had one van they purposely ran for 30,000 miles without an oil change and it had no damaging affect whatsoever. I actually bought one of the CNG/Gasoline vans when the gas company got rid of it and I sold it later with 250,000 original miles (not counting the idling time as it was a service van) with the same engine. They converted it back to just gasoline for me when I bought it as there were very few places to fuel up the CNG back then. The fella I sold that van to now is still running it with some minor engine repairs it has over 300,000 miles on it.

Charlie from wmass

I could not use this

when I drive down the Masspike to Boston I would have to exit at 14 and not go into the tunnels as propane and CNG are not allowed in there as per the signs on the Pike.

Paul48

Charlie

I never thought about that.I wonder if folks driving RV's have to get off?

Robert O'Brien

Cost?

What type of mileage? Cost per fuel unit?

Steamhead

They do

and I believe in MD, the fine for going thru a tunnel with any kind of propane or other gas tank starts at $10,000.

Tim McElwain

Cost

1. [u][color=#0000ff]Money saving calculator[/color][/u]
2. [u][color=#0000ff]CNG Vehicles[/color][/u]

Save money by driving a CNG vehicle

One of the initial reasons for me to buy a CNG car was the cost savings. Here is a little calculator that will estimate your cost savings in a typical year in driving a CNG car vs. a regular gas car. The $0.99 cost per gallon of the CNG is if you are using a [u][color=#0000ff]Phill[/color][/u] station. The cost of an oil change is in there because a CNG car needs oil changes about half the time of a normal car, saving you money. Fill in the values with your numbers and click on Calculate Savings to see your Annual Savings. You could save even more than this calculator shows since the Honda Civic, the most popular natural gas vehcicle on the market is most likley more fuel efficient than what you are driving now. Daily commute: miles

Mileage: miles per gallon

Normal gas cost: $ per gallon

CNG cost: $ per gallon gas equivalent (GGE)

Oil change cost: $



Annual savings: $





Annual savings: $



CNG Vehicles

[u][color=#0000ff]Honda Civic GX[/color][/u] - This is the only natural gas vehicle that is currently in production and for sale to the general public. At the moment, it is only available in New York and California. You can often buy them used on Craigslist (try the Los Angeles, Orange County or San Francisco areas)

You can search craigslist for CNG related items using this google search button. Type in "CNG" or "CNG Cars" to search Craigslist.

Using the new EPA estimates for fuel efficiency, it gets 24 mpg in the city and 36 mpg on the highway. (Using the old estimates it was 30/38.) There is a [u][color=#0000ff]$4,000 tax rebate available[/color][/u] for purchasers of this car. Note that is a tax rebate, not a deduction, so you get the entire $4,000!

In California, the Honda Civic GX also qualifies for the [u][color=#0000ff]Clean Air carpool stickers[/color][/u], allowing you to drive solo in the carpool lane. This is a great benefit for those commuting in congested areas.CNG in the news

This is not a comprehensive list of news sources about CNG cars, but just the ones that I thought were particularly noteworthy.

Tim McElwain

Those rules for

CNG and Propane are being discussed, in particular President Obama is a big advocate of alternative fuels for vehicles and is having the tunnel and other rules looked at.



No RV's can't go through tunnels.

SWEI

RVs, tunnels, and ferries

One of the reasons I installed a DC compressor-driven sailboat fridge in my camper.  400AH of batteries but no LPG tank!

Gordan

I don't get it...

Gasoline vapors don't explode? I'm sure we've all seen how quickly gasoline evaporates... and heard of fuel-air bombs.



It just seems based on knee-jerk reactions rather than solid science. If they were serious about it, they'd prohibit any non-diesel internal combustion vehicles in the tunnels.



Is there really no consideration of size? As in, small container of gasoline/LP/CNG or gasoline/LP/CNG in a vehicle fuel tank, ok; a big tanker of it, not OK?

Boiler Talk

Lots of missed opportunities! How about steam cars?

Tim McElwain, do you own stock in a company that makes equipment for CNG? 



See further below. 

  

Boiler Talk

Lots of missed opportunities! How about a Steam Car?

Tim McElwain, do you own stock in a company that makes equipment for CNG? 



You should try making some money, but please don't expect subsidies Obama

or the Democrats enacted to last much longer.  Budget deficits are way

beyond historic values.  As Americans we are allowing you to make a

profit or fail miserably.  Oil companies would own solar companies or

CNG if it were profitable.  Does that sound reasonable?    How about

getting rid of tax incentives to solar companies and CNG Co's to stop

future excessive profits?  Profits are not likely going to happen, because Democrats lowered the cost (or at least shifted the cost), which brought the Chinese in and devoured the market and jobs. 



It is either going to be economical or it isn't.  Personally, if anyone is

so concerned with getting CNG, you yourself should pay for it.   Please

don't ask other folks (including poor folks) to subsidize

development.   People who got solar panels, hybrid cars, etc.  expected

to get government money/tax refunds and they aren't poor!  Kind of

hypocritical, uneconomical and politically foolish! 

SWEI

government subsidies

I'm fine getting rid of the subsidies for solar and other emerging technologies - once we remove the subsidies for the petroleum complex and create a tax system which properly accounts for the real costs of energy.



Now back to the real world...

Paul48

Wrong

place....Wrong person....Totally improper to make this person the object of your political rant. What makes you think that simple discussion gives you the right to get up on a soap box and spout your agenda. You owe the man an apology.

Boiler Talk

I should vote my pocket book.

Isn't there too little thought about from where this money comes for rebates, refunds or deductions.  The debt numbers are startling.   Tax who, why you and me?  But perhaps some people like to milk others for solar panels, hybrids and heaters.



If you don't believe the above, think about the failed stimulus.  Why is it that the economic recovery so weak?   Why is the total employment participation rate so low?  Folks can't find jobs and give up!  I can't sit here and believe the promises of this president and nobody else should either. 



Oh, Mr. Obama is looking into fixing this so CNG cars can go here and there.  Really?  Right now Barack's only agenda is getting reelected. 



No, I can't sit here and not counter limited thinking.  Thank you for your consideration in this argument.  But that fellow you think I insulted, perhaps he isn't feeling bad at all.



This is a moment needing attention.

Tim McElwain

Well I find this very interesting

to say the least!



No I do not have stock in CNG, in fact I do not have stock in anything. I might add that just so we understand most  CNG (Compressed Natural Gas) is actually produced by some of the oil companies that were mentioned.



My purpose in posting this was as it always is to educate my friends who post here. As always read and learn but the decisions are always up to the individual. I am not promoting and particular agenda when is comes to saving energy or the environment. Just want to educate folks so they can make sound decisions without involving politics.



My stand here and on all the other sites I participate in is to steer clear of politics and religion. Now it is not that I do not have an opinion because I surely do but this is not the forum for those things. As for religion I am an ordained Pentecostal minister saved by the blood of Jesus and filled with the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues. That is just who I am but I refrain from preaching here as it is just not the place. I try to let my light shine.



So "A Boiler Fire" whoever you are I have no agenda one way or another just trying to educate folks because that is what I do in my training center and on the Internet and most of it is free other than my seminars. Fell free if you want to discuss this privately to send me an e-mail.

Paul Fredricks_3

Back to the tunnels

We drove from CT to NC last year pulling a camper with 2 LPG tanks on the front. The only thing we had to do at the tunnels is stop and turn the tanks off (they run the refrigerator when we're not plugged in) under the supervision of a state employee, then turn them on again on the other end of the tunnel. I think it was in Virginia.