Chemical

Joseph56

I am in charge of three buildings with boilers.  Two are schools and a church.  One school and the church are two pipe systems.  The other school is a one pipe system.  All piping is over 50 years old and have never had any chemical put in the system.  The boilers have been replaced and are 10 to 15 years old.  I am thinking of starting to use chemicals and clean out the old pipe and the boiler.  I know this will give us a lot of problems, but think it might be the right thing to do.  We are currently having several leaks and replacing several pipes already.  Just want some opinions if I would be crazy to start using chemicals at this time.  Wish they would have done this from the start.

nicholas bonham-carter

chemicals or not?

most people here would prefer not to use any chemicals in the boiler; unless there is some clear need for altering the chemistry of some bad water. are you in an area where the chlorides are high?

more important would be to keep an eye on the amount of new water needed to be added throughout the season. too much fresh water is corrosive, so make sure that any leaks are fixed.

too much pressure above 1.5 psi can make the condensate acidic, which over time can do a number on the pipes.--nbc

Joseph56

Chemical

Thanks Nicholas,

We have city water and they soften it to 10 grain hardness.  Other than that I am not sure how good or bad our water is.  I was told by several people that chemical would make our systems run better and keep traps cleaner.  Also after initial use of chemical and replacing pipes that are bad now but not leaking we would not have the problem of pipes corroding and leaking.  Is this bad information that I have been told.  I run the boiler in the school with 30 classrooms, gym, and cafeteria at 5lbs of pressure.

Thanks for your help.

Paul48

No

need to guess. Measure the pressure at the farthest radiator.The difference between that reading and the 5lbs at the boiler, plus a few ounces, is all you should be running.

nicholas bonham-carter

Lower that pressure

Check how tha air gets out, and increase the main, not rad venting, and reduce the pressure to the lowest setting. I have 55 rads, and most of my heating is at 2 ounces, with maybe a spike to 10 if there is a severe drop in temperature (of course I have a vaporstat ).

Elevated pressures equal more fuel, and more carbonic acid!

Of course the chemical vendors are going to recommend their potions, but resist unless you have a water problem(caused by high pressure)!--NBC

Henry

Chemicals = $$$

Chemical additives to a steam heating system is our biggest steam boiler replacement customer. We are installing our third steam heating boiler this winter due to chemical use. I have posted several pictures over the winter of damaged boilers by the use of chemicals in a steam heating system. Why would someone spend thousand of dollars on chemicals when you have 100% return. Your only loss is from the weekly blowdowns or leaks. Leaks should be rapidly fixed. As for your pipes leaking, it is somewhat normal due to the age of the system, improper slope, open steam traps etc.

Our industrial clients do need chemicals even with pre-heated condensate tanks as there is little return condensate. But, carefull monitoring of the water quality in the boiler is critical. Insufficient chemistry and corrosion occurs. Too much chemistry and there is also corrosion and runaway steam. Don't trust the analysis by the chemical sales guy! Always have someone independant do the testing. I have two food plants that I had to replace the piping between the boilers and condensate tank several times before they woke up and had indenpendant testing. Besides, one had a chemical pump that ran continuosly and the other was not even plugged in! The log book was fake!

Jamie Hall

Not on a heating system

Chemical additives are neither recommended nor needed for a steam heating system.  This is not a consumptive use of steam, not is it high pressure -- the only two places where chemicals are needed.



To keep corrosion in line, it is merely necessary to find and correct your leaks, so you are not adding water to the system, except for required blowdown of low water cut offs etc.



Do correct that high pressure; keep in mind that even the Empire State Building in New York runs on about 2 psi.  Unless you have some specific devices which require the higher pressure -- which is unlikely -- all you are doing is destroying your traps and vents.

Paul48

Pressures

like that are a dead give-away to problems within the system.Are you testing traps and maintaining survey records?

Joseph56

Thanks.

Thanks for all your help.  This is my first time on this site as I just bought books by Dan Holohan.  I have been reading them and learning a lot.  Can anyone tell me what the pH in water should be so I can get it tested.  I have turned down our pressure as they were running it at 7 to 8lbs.  I had it down to 31/2lbs, but when the boiler would start back up at about 2lbs and the blower runs for almost 2 minutes to clear out any gas in the heat chamber the pressure is down to zero.  My guess is you will tell me we have traps leaking and need to be fixed.  Have not counted but would guess we have around a 100 traps.  If this is the case could be a summertime job.

SWEI

one-time use

Can make sense to clean out a system -- especially if it has not been properly maintained.

Paul48

A

50 dollar IR thermometer should tell you whether the trap is blowing by.A reading on either side of the trap should show significant difference.Read up on steam trap testing, and you'll see there are different ways to test. And in most cases the whole trap does not have to be replaced.They make cage units for most traps, that basically replace the guts.Even if you don't do anything now, now is the time to find the bad traps. I am not an expert, and the experts will probably chime in with better solutions for your problems. Best Wishes