Help please

Jason68

Hi all,



Could use an idea on this. I just purchased a modular home about 3000 Square feet.  Due to my poor researching It has electric baseboard heating.  The 3 winter months I have been in the house the electric bill has been 400/500/600 dollars.  I am now looking at a way to basically shut down my electric heat and replace it with a coal stoker. 

I have researched a bit on the stoker and seems like a good sized one could heat a 3000 uare foot house no problem, however the problem comes in with the fact that I obviously have no duct work.

Some I have talked to have said that the rising heat will heat the house, but it is basically a basement main floor and cape roof second floor basically 3 floors to heat.  Now I suppose I could cut into the floor on the main level and install registers to allow for heat to come from the basement to the first floor, but my question comes in with regards to the second floor.  Only access to the second floor would be airflow up the stairs.

Anyone ever heard of this?  If so what are some ideas.  I am anticipating having about $6000 for this project maybe 7 if I push it, but the intention is to use the electric heat very little if at all.



Thank in advance,



Jason

icesailor

Electric Conversions:

That's a good idea. There's nothing dirtier than a coal fired house, Every time you clean the ashes out, the house will fill up with ash. No matter how careful you are.

An easier solution is this, what I always did on electric heat conversions.

Only on the first floor, remove the electric heat heaters. Replace them with hydronic baseboard. This way, you don't need to cut back the wood baseboards. The HW baseboards are usually more then the output of the electric baseboard. Install a gas or oil hot water boiler with an indirect. Don't worry about the second floor. The hot air from the first, rises. The little electric you use is very small. And you only need it for a small portion of the year.

You don't need to cut big holes in the floor, and you get the best of all worlds.

But if you are one who squeaks when you walk, and you think you will save a lot of money by burning coal, knock yourself out. If you go away, you will need to use the electric heat that you will need to leave installed. You will most likely, be doing all stove maintenance on your own. If I asked my wife to help with this chore, we would be discussing a division of the house. I would get the outside and she would get the inside. I would be paying for a gas conversion and she would be enjoying the inside. While I would be enjoying the comforts of an alternate living experience.  

If you ever try to sell this house, it will be severely limited in popularity. Most anyone even remotely interested in buying it, will want you to pay for a gas conversion. You pay, either way.

Robert_25

Where do you live?

Jason, do you live in coal country? I assume you were considering anthracite and not bituminous coal. Nothing against Icesailor, but if someone with a modern stoker boiler is getting ashes all over the house they are doing something terribly wrong. The best thing for you to do is visit the home of someone that is running the unit you are considering and make up your own mind about the pros/cons.



I heat my home with an EFM stoker boiler, and everyone that visits is shocked that the house is heated with coal. My house is 72-73 degrees, there is no dust in the living area, and it saves me about 60% compared to heating oil. I have installed two others in my neighborhood, the last one was in a house that was previously heated with electric baseboard.



"Coal" is a dirty word and most people have zero experience with an anthracite stoker. Here is a video of an EFM like mine...if you think one of them would look good in your basement feel free to send me an email.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hW65fisK1I

Jason68

Yup

Yes,



North east PA so I do live in coal country, pretty confident on stoker, not looking for pros and cons of the anthracite system, was more looking on advice on getting the heat throughout the house without ducting in place.  The coal stoker would be in an unfinished part of the house anyway. basically in the basement. Ultimately the question is would I be able to heat my house with a coal stoker at 90000btu in the basement with no way to "Force" the air to the top floor?

LarryC

Reasons to avoid a forced air conversion.

Jason,



This website is predominantly used by heating people that are somewhat biased against forced air systems.  Which is their choice.  If you do not need A/C, many believe that forced air is less comfortable than a water based system.



Since you already have electric baseboards installed, replacing them with a water heated version should be a less intrusive conversion.  Assuming you can gain access to the underside, you can replace the baseboards and plumb each unit to a distribution manifold with OXYGEN BARRIER PEX-AL-PEX tubing. 



The boiler or furnance can use any fuel you want, coal, oil, gas, propane, animal manure, wood pellets, electricity, geothermal, heat pump, or whatever.



If you decide to use non oxygen barrier pex, O2 WILL migrate into your system and WILL corrode all the steel, which leads to a much shorter boiler life and more failures.



If you try the save money by using a waterheater instead of a boiler, you will suffer from a short lived W/H life and probably a higher operating costs than a proper boiler.



I belive outdoor furnaces are not pressurized on the waterside which means the oxygen in the water will corrode all available steel.  Plus, you will have a very hard time pumping water up to second floor emmitters if you decide to put heat in the second floor.



I am sorry that the existing heating system was not what you wanted, but now you have the chance to make it much better.



One last plug for a water based system.  Depending on future plans, a properly designed and installed system can be expanded relatively easily, can support radiant floors, ceilings, or walls, in addition to baseboards or radiators, can be designed to use low temperature heat sources like solar, heatpumps, and outside fuel burners.



Whatever system you decide to go with, the first step is to reduce the heatload as much as possible.  That means insulation, draft sealing, and general tightnening up of the building envelope.  The next step is to perform a heat loss calculation of the building to determine how much heat you actually need.  THEN decide what type and size of a heating system you need.



Following these steps should lead you to a well built comfortable home with minimal heating costs and maximum comfort.

Zman

Trying to by a Dumptruck at the Ferrari dealership

Do you feel like you are trying to buy a dumptruck at the ferrari dealership. The wall is filled with wetheads who want to build beautiful high performance machines. The idea of forced air is distasteful to many. The coal powered beast you are suggesting is unthinkable. To answer your question. 90,000 BTU should be pretty close. I think you need a few ducts or at least vents cut in the first  floor. You could use thermostatic grill fans. I think smarthome.com carries them. How does the stoker get it's combustion air, is it from the room or ducted in? I am curious about the economics of this. Do you know what you local gas (or propane),electric and coal costs are?

"Coal stokers are nice. but what would it take to get you into a shiny new Mod/Con with pretty European panel radiators" 

Best of luck