CO Incident:

icesailor

FWIW,

I drove to Florida last Wednesday, 2/1/12. We stopped in Rock Mount, NC which is about half way. We went to a well known sleep place at the end of the off ramp that allows pets (a cat). As I walked in the door and through the lobby, I smelled an odd odor. As I carted our stuff up to the room, I realized it was an odor of Nat. Gas. I had happened to have thrown my UEI CO detector in my bag. I went down and outside (still smelling the smell in the lobby) and let it calibrate. I went back in, and walked around. It went to 2 PPM, then 4PPM. I went to the room and it went to zero after a few. I went back downstairs and walked around. It went back to 4PPM, then 6. I found a door with a big draft coming through it. It went to 8 PPM. I found the PHA at the desk and asked them about the smell. She said she had noticed it for a long time and thought it was normal. I showed her my instrument and told her it wasn't normal. I "suggested" to her that she might call someone. She said she would notify someone in the morning. She didn't.

In the AM, at 6:00 AM, she ignored me like I didn't exist. It was still 4 PPM  with folks going in and out of the building.

I had left the instrument on all night in case it started to go up, it didn't.

We and the cat, left and continued our trip.

What to do in a quandary.

The average fire person is mostly clueless about CO and where it can come from.

What to do.

nugs

what to do

Give a call to the fire department in the town the motel is in

bill_105

Speaking of CO

I was driving through Whithorse, Yukon last week and learned of a family of four and a friend died of CO, in Whitehorse. I noticed that the CO awareness topic was removed here. I think that topic was,pretty important.

Punch in Whitehorse daily star (the newspaper there), It's all the talk of the territory

Oh BTW, isn't 2 and 4 ppm kind of low?

Mark Eatherton

I'd call the F.D.

Takes the monkey off of your back and places it on theirs.



I can't speak for Dan, but i suspect the CO Awareness section fell off due to a lack of interest. It's like most contractors think if they don't acknowledge that there is a problem, they will be find innocent WHEN it happens to them.



Nothing could be further from the truth...



Note that I said WHEN it happens, and not if...



Sad but true.



If you don't test, you don't know, and not knowing is NOT considered an excuse of liability when it does happen. Document, document, document, and notify people in writing (return receipt requested) when you find a situation that warrants immediate action.



ME

Tim McElwain

Ice, does that hotel also have

a gas fireplace in the lounge area? If it does I have stayed there several times. I carry a personal protective CO detector with me all the time. I have pricked up CO at that place several times and alerted the manager. One time they even called the fire department who came and with their detector did not pick up anything so they suggested my belt carried unit was not as good as their detector. I asked to look at their detector and discovered it had not been tested for accuracy for 11 years and the O2 sensor was not working. They put fans in the lobby to dissipate what was an aldehyde odor, the cause was the top burned of the gas valve in the gas fireplace, gas was escaping and had ignited and was impinging on the inside surface of the fireplace. I called the local gas company the next day and they sent a service man who shut the unit down and made it inoperative.



A visit to that same place (very convenient on a trip to Florida for me also). This time I brought my Testo 327 with me as I knew I would be staying there. I walked into an area outside that vents several gas water heaters and picked up 50 to 100 PPM CO in the air as I walked into the area with picnic table located between two sections of the hotel a very confined area. Another visit by the fire department and the local service company. Cause cross contamination from vented flue gases being drawn back into the air intake for the side wall vented water heaters.



That place is a bomb waiting to go off. I do not stop there anymore. I wonder if it is the same place your are talking about.

Tim McElwain

We just had a local

contractor working out of state stying at a Holiday Inn overcome at his hotel along with four of his fellow workers. He died from CO poisoning the cause a pool heater located inside the hotel venting into the occupied area. This is very typical of several Holiday Inns I have visited. The pool heater is in a brick enclosure next to the indoor swimming pool in the very large open area inside the hotel. The vent does not go to outdoors but vents into the large space which probably satisfies code for air change and allowance to vent in that location. But it killed him and one other worker is in critical condition. All of them had to be placed in a hyperbaric chamber.

icesailor

Interesting:

With your encouragement, I found an e-mail for the Rocky Mount Fire Dept. I sent them an E-mail. Then I found the number of the On-Duty Battalion Chief. So, I called him and explained it to him. He was very receptive. When I got off, I checked my E-mail again and there was a reply from someone else in the FD wanting to know which Inn it was at. I told him

It does not have a fireplace in the lobby. But I'm sure that the situation is similar. When I saw the pool through the door, I knew that there was a gas heater somewhere. And in the AM, before we left, they were bringing lots of prepared food for their giant Continental Breakfast.

I think that the one I stayed at is the one next to it. You have to go around to another street. It abuts the Outback Steakhouse.  

I threw my CO71A in my computer bag at the last moment. I'll never travel without it again.

Here's one for you, piston powered aircraft (twin engine) have a gasoline heater similar to a master kerosene heater. It uses some very small amount of gasoline to work. It is fired in a HX and exhausted out the bottom of the aircraft. When on the ground, there is a fan to keep the HX cool and heat the aircraft. I always wondered what was happening and how would they know if it was leaking exhaust into the cabin. One February day, I had to go to where i work and flew over. I got in the plane and was sitting in the Co-Pilots seat. I had set the CO71A and the pilot slowly taxied out to the runway and waited for clearance. I watched as the CO climbed and climbed until it finally was over 65 before we took off. The airflow through the unit made it go back down to zero in a short amount of time.

I worry about things like that. I told the pilot who was wondering what I was doing. I never heard anything more about it. I carry it everywhere. I'm glad to know that I'm not the only one that carries one.  



http://www.ueitest.com/products/carbon-monoxide-detectors/co71a

moey

call the fire department

I know someone else said it, but the fire department needs to be contacted. I had a high readings on a residential detector in my house. They were at my house in a couple minutes with more sophisticated equipment and advised me that my detector was bad, it was. 

icesailor

Fire Department:

I did that. But read the postings from Tim McIlwaine.

Don't count on anyone finding the cross connections we find.

moey

sorry I read that after my post

the fire department can light a fire under someone (excuse the pun) no hotel wants the fire department around questioning a CO leak

icesailor

Discretion:

That was my quandary. I didn't want ten fire trucks pulling up and a bunch of jacketed fire persons traipsing around the lobby while evacuating the building. Whatever was wrong, wasn't huge. But the management would come to attention when they went looking for the problem. Tim McIlwaine has had experience with another Inn in the close area. The AHJ seemed to be genuinely interested in the problem. Maybe I'll see.

Mark Eatherton

Discretion is a butter best spread thin....

Sometimes, if you can get in contact with a chief or assistant chief, you can explain the POTENTIAL situation to them, and they will not show up red lights and sirens. In fact they don't even need to bring a pumper to investigate, just a CO detector.



Good catch on your and Tim's part. Funny that they are right next to each other. Sounds like a need for continuing education. Of the AHJ, The Owners, and the fire departments head personnel.



ME

icesailor

Testing/Reporting:

That's what i tried to do. Have them be discrete. Especially if they didn't know how to find what they are looking for, and didn't find anything. Like in Tim's story. A false alarm will make a non-believer out of them.

I've had that UEI CO71A for a few years. Ive had it tell me that there was CO where I didn't think there was any, and tell me that there wasn't where I thought there was. More than once, where I was somewhere on another mission, I thought the gas equipment wasn't right. I put it in the outside exhaust to see what it is reading. Twice, it locked out at over 1600 PPM and I had to pull the batteries to reset it. I've compared it to my Fyrite Insight and they read about the same. So I trust it. And it is easier than dragging my Fyrite out of the truck. The best $200.00 I ever spent.