Oil vs NG

Paul48

OK......What am I doing wrong? I'm trying to compare gas prices to oil, and I'm coming up with gas being 60% cheaper for me. I'm currently paying $3.55/gal for oil, and gas would be about a dollar per therm.

Mark Eatherton

Figures don't lie...

I came up with the same results.



At that price, oil comes in at 2.53 per therm.



ME

Paul48

I

looked at it, figuring oil had finally surpassed gas, but didn't expect that. In this old house, that means I'm throwing 3 grand away a year. More than that if I go mod/con.

Gordy

NG

In my neck of the woods is .82 Therm after tax title, and license.

Gordy

Paul48

conservative

That $1.00 was being very conservative on my part. The rate for residential heating goes down considerably after 30 ccf , so my average would probably be more along the lines of yours.

BobC

Depends on where you are

In Boston right now the rate that was effective in Nov 2011 is.



1.302 for the first 40 therms

1.387 for 41 therms and up



Those are from National Grids site and that includes delivery and the cost of gas but I'm not sure it includes the monthly customer charge ($10.33).



I just went over the numbers again and the gas company figures DO NOT include the 10.33 heating customers pay them every month for the priviledge of being a customer.



Bob

bob eck

oil vs nat gas

replaced oil oil boiler with TT PE110 condensing nat gas boiler.

last year for heating, domestic hot water and cooking I paid $1076 for the year for nat gas.

If I stayed with old oil boiler with domestic coil in boiler it would have cost me $2482 plus the electric it cost me to run the kitchen stove/oven.and electric baseboard in bathroom that now has a very warm cast iron radiator in it.

aemeeich

Oil vs NG

Same here in SE WI.



Oil is $3.39/gallon, and NG is right around $1.10/therm.



I'm just about done with my switchover to NG using a Knight WBN081.



Spent around $3000 on oil each of the past couple of winters.  I expect to cut that down to around $1000 now with gas.



Michael

ChrisJ

cost

I don't remember exact numbers but I came up with NG being less than half the cost of oil in north west NJ.  For some reason I want to say it was $1.15 per therm after all taxes and fees.



Oil seems to be around $3.59 a gallon in my area as of last night.

Jean-David Beyer

In Central NJ, near Red Bank...

My latest gas bill, ending December 20, was $0.9766 per therm including gas, delivery, customer charge, and RCA of -$0.3094. I do not know what RCA stands for, but it must be Residential Customer Adjustment or something: it is a refund of some kind.



Previous month, with no RCA, was $1.3789 per therm.

Yois

Let everyone remember

that back in 2005 oil was half the price of gas



If you recover your investment in 2 years, it might be worth switching.  But as a long term investment, it all depends on what the hedge fund managers on wall street decide to invest it to hike the prices.  The oil price hike over the past 5 years, and the incredible decline of NG prices over the same time period attest to the fact that there is a lot of investment price inflation going on.

ChrisJ

price

Yois,





I'm going to be honest, even if oil was $1 a gallon I'd still keep NG. I HATE the smell of diesel not to mention the maintenance required with an oil burner.



But you are right, the prices could flip next year or even within a few months, who knows.

Paul48

Actually

For me.....Oil would have to be $1.07 a gallon to match gas.And with supplies growing ever smaller, anyone think that's gonna happen?

Yois

To the contrary

World Natural Gas supplies are actually LESS than Crude oil.  If the Mid East crises start dying down (and maybe that's not going to happen soon) or people in Washington get into their head that terrorism is also bad for the environment  and take the pipeline from Canada, prices of oil will plummet.  Like any investment, it's a risk.



I don't work for an oil company, don't get me wrong.  I'm just reminding everyone it's not a simple equation. 

Zman

Nice spreadsheet

Here is a nice spreadsheet for comparing energy sources www.eia.gov/neic/experts/heatcalc.xls

Jack

NY Sunday Times article

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/22/business/heating-oil-costs-surge-and-many-in-northeast-cant-switch.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=as%20heating%20oil%20soars,%20users%20can%20omly%20shiver%20and%20cross%20their%20fingers&st=cse



Worth a read.

JohnHenry_2

However,

The relative quantities of each are for the most part irrelevant if there is enough of each fuel to satisfy demand. The USA has vast reserves of natural gas. Currently known extractable reserves will last us many decades and we are finding new reserves while also figuring out better ways of extracting older reserves every year. Getting the gas out of the ground is relatively cheap (as with oil) so it comes down to price/unit of energy. If there's enough to meet demand and there's no disruption in the distribution systems, prices will remain low.



Currently, there is a high demand for oil because of growth in the developing world. Oil is much easier (cheaper) to transport across oceans so it's more economical to sell domestic gas domestically rather than export it, plus it would take many years to build enough ships with refrigerated tanks to make any meaningful dent in our natural gas supplies.



One also has to consider how the pricing consumers pay is arrived at.



NG utilities buy on long term contracts and typically have to go before some sort of commission to change their pricing to the consumer. This arrangement leads to very stable prices during a particular group of a few heating seasons and fairly stable prices relative to demand over a longer term.



Oil pricing is a lot more volatile to the consumer as heating oil suppliers are pretty much at the mercy of a spot market that can vary wildly not only year over year but month to month. I paid about $3.80 for my first delivery and $5.00/gal for my last oil delivery last year.



I think the long and the short of fuel prices for the next decade is that NG will stay relatively low and oil continue to rise.



Just my 2 cents...

D107

Gas Price

Westchester County NY last month's bill: 203 therms for $315.07, all charges included. that's $1.55 per therm.

(Supply is $.511281/therm, merchant function charge is flat $7.77, supply GRT & other tax surcharges is flat $1.13. Then all the delivery charges:  Basic service charge for first 3.3 therms $20.98; remaining @$.637156/therm, monthly rate adjustment @$.152857/therm, SBC (System benefits charge) @$.015714/therm, temporary NY State Surcharge @$.020246/therm, delivery GRT & other tax surcharges a flat $6.65. then NYS sales tax @3%.



All these charges sound made up-- like an old Abbott and Costello routine. I guess that's still a bit cheaper than oil right now.

Paul48

I guess so.....

About $200 cheaper

neophytehomeowner

some advtgs of oil

As a know-nothing HO old geezer who has lived in both oil and gas heated homes, I will say that if you have an old house with dicey masonry chimneys and strange drafts you are better off with oil in terms of keeping safe from CO, stack and chimney issues, and having to make sure that your gas burner is properly set-up, vented, maintained, etc.  Also if any vent issues arise with oil I always feel like you can smell the elements of oil combustion showing up in the home, whereas gas boiler emissions are harder to smell out. just my 2 cents.

Robert O'Brien

Meaningless

If you're burning the gas in a mod/con,these comparisons are meaningless,the efficiency difference makes the discussion pointless

Yois

Good point

People often make the mistake of thinking that gas heating is maintenance free.  That simply isn't the case.  A neglected gas appliance can kill you without you knowing it, or blow up your house.  Just for arguments sake.

bill nye_3

City Slickers

You city slickers are lucky to have NG. Us here country boys, out in the sticks, do not have access to NG. The option would be propane but I am not sure how prices compare. I am probably 6-8 miles away from a natural gas pipe line. Maybe 20 miles in the other direction.

I have worked for oil companies for almost 25 yrs and would switch to gas in my own home if it was available. Equipment and insulation play a big part in home heating costs no matter what fuel you use. The previous owner of my home used 6-8 cords of wood and 4-5 tanks of oil pr yr for heat and hot water. I insulated, replaced windows, and doubled the size of the house and use less than 2-1/2 tanks oil and maybe 1 -1-1/2 cord of "recreational" wood. I also switched from scorched hot air to hot water with a Viessmann and outdoor reset.



Who knows what the future holds? Maybe everyone will have their own nuclear reactor in the basement for heat, hot water and electricity. I could dress up like Homer Simpson and change the little pellet in your basement reactor every few years. Bill the space age heating guy.