Where to start?

WarrenPFJr

Hello All,

I am building a new home and plan to heat the basement (in the future) and 1st floor with radiant heat. There seem like so many options for makes and models to heat the water and many opinions on loop sizing and installation methods I am hoping to gain some modern insight from you pros.



I am an extreme DIYer pretty much building the home myself on nights and weekends with occasional help from friends and family. I am finally ready to start the heating portion and have contacted a few online places for free design estimates for product price quotes and am finding some differences of opinions. I figured a good start might be to talk to some folks who aren't trying to sell me something first.



On a side note, I have installed a radiant heat system in my barn/studio. It was a learning experience but I am pretty happy with the way it turned out. I am not so psyched with the support that was supposed to come along with the design service I had paid for but I got an education in any case.



For my new project I feel fairly confident in the actual install but not so much in the actual design and sizing.

I had a heat loss calc done and was told I need 125k btu/hr for about 4000 sq ft of floor space (not including DHW to 4 baths, 1 kitchen and laundry). I have a new high output wood burning stove on the first floor for supplemental heat to the first floor and primary heat to the second floor. I am thinking of using a propane fueled, high efficiency water heater for both heat and DHW. Are the quality heaters pretty much all the same (Polaris vs Weil McClain, vs AO Smith Vertex were among suggestions)? I have read mixed reviews of using aluminum or graphite heat displacers -what would determine if these are a good fit for the rooms I would like to heat? Do I run all my loops off of a large single pump or use several smaller pumps for each zone/loop? Does it make sense to run my water supply through the loops to the heater when DHW calls in summer months to gain some "free" cooling?



Do you have any tips, suggestions or advice on where to start?

kcopp

In my opinion....

when I hear "running your water supply through pex to get cooling" it sounds like you are getting some odd advice. If you don't pay for some things  often you get what you pay for. If I were you I would find a local heating contractor who has  a lot of experience w/ radiant floor heating systems and see if he will work w/ you on  the install. You could do a lot of the grunt work and he can do the proper design and the critical hook ups... some of these on-line radiant out its do some very unconventional "cost cutting" stuff and  their customers have shown up here wondering why they can't heat their home....

Zman

Don't do it

I sounds like you are going to dabble in an "open" hydronic heat system. There a countless reasons not to go this way, starting with health issues like legioneers disease and ending with a system that fails prematurely because the components were never  designed for an oxygenated system. I would recommend reading siegenthaler's "radiant precision" 3 times then designing a really nice system using a condensing boiler and DHW exchanger tank

WarrenPFJr

Thanks guys for the feedback....

I am continuing to research this subject and was able to find a designer/installer in my area that seems quite reputable. We spoke for almost an hour on the phone as we discussed my needs and their suggestions. They will be coming out here for a site visit this week.



You guys do have me concerned now as i had hired a designer through the internet for a system that now heats my barn/studio space- about 1,100 sq ft. I did the install and it works fine so far (this is the second heating season with it). It is an open system with a Takagi Jr heating both the floor and DHW. Should consider replacing this system?

Zman

stagnant water

I think professional design help was a good call. As far as you existing system my biggest concern is all the stagnant water that will never get hot enough to kill micro-organisms. That being said, there are thousands of systems like yours installed in the US. I would suggest doing your own research and perhaps testing your water.

WarrenPFJr

Status update

So I spoke with a local designer/installer and they even came out and did a walk through with me. These guys seem good, they have some decent references/awards on their website and I got a great feeling from them. They saw all the work I was doing with building the new house and understood I wanted to do as much of the grunt labor as I could for budget reasons. I would run all the pex loops, and Tstat wires along with elec, water and propane lines to the specified location and they would handle the rest. However, I was floored by the price quote that was comparable to a high end automobile and that was with me doing most of the grunt work.



After I got the quote, I asked as a plan B, if I could hire them to design a system for me that I would install. They didnt go for it .



Are there designers out there or is that like going out to diner and asking the chef if you can make your own meal?



I do know what boiler, water tank and many parts they planned to use from the quote. But what I dont know is how to tie it all together. Is there a resource out there to to help illustrate how these components all go together properly (circulators, check valves, manifolds, ect)?

SWEI

designers who don't install

I'm sure there are plenty of others, but I can vouch for these:

http://www.hydronicpros.com/hydronicheating/services.php

http://www.nationalradiant.com/

http://www.radiantcomplete.com/



Be sure to check your local codes before you DIY.  Many jurisdictions do not allow DIY gas work, and you will definitely need a properly trained and equipped tech to commission a condensing boiler.

RobG

NRT

Call these guys, you won't be disappointed. They are a design and consulting firm that can do everything you need. They can supply you're materials as well as build and ship you're secondary loop system to the specs you require. On top of that, Rob, one of the owners is on this site daily. For the DIYer these are the guys to go to.

Northeast Radiant Technology.

(although my name is Rob, I am not affiliated with NRT. I'm just trying to help you out)

Look them up on the web or on this site.