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two pipe system

zagor
zagor Member Posts: 5
I have two pipes steam system and it makes loud noise. I checked the pipes slope and it looks good. But the problem is the water level in the boiler, its kind of always high, and every two days have to go in the basement and take the extra water out of the system, if not the water comes out through the air vents on main raiser. After that the pipes are quiet. My boiler was installed four years ago.

Would anybody know what's the problem.

Thanks.

Comments

  • BobC
    BobC Member Posts: 5,228
    Boiler overfilling

    When the boiler fires and makes steam does the water level in the sight glass go down enough to cause the auto water feeder to come on? That in combination with a slow condensate return could overfill the boiler as the slow return water finds it's way back to the boiler.



    If you have an auto water feeder it could be leaking water into the boiler, Even a manual feed valve could leak water into the boiler, not common but it can happen.



    If you heat your domestic hot water with this boiler a pinhole on the coil could be leaking water into the boiler.



    Bob
    Smith G8-3 with EZ Gas @ 90,000 BTU, Single pipe steam
    Vaporstat with a 12oz cut-out and 4oz cut-in
    3PSI gauge
  • gerry gill
    gerry gill Member Posts: 3,010
    please post pictures

    of the boiler, its piping, and its controls, (specifically the feeder)
    gwgillplumbingandheating.com
    Serving Cleveland's eastern suburbs from Cleveland Heights down to Cuyahoga Falls.

  • zagor
    zagor Member Posts: 5
    Noisy Two pipe system

    I have two pipes steam system and it makes loud noise. I checked the pipes slope and it looks good. But the problem is the water level in the boiler, its kind of always high, and every two days I have to go in the basement and take the extra water out of the system, if not the water comes out through the air vents on main riser. After that the pipes are quiet.

    The automatic feeder goes on while the boiler is on when the water level drops down. My boiler was installed four years ago, its a Burnham 280,000 btu input, 14gal capacity (not 100% sure). There are eight big and seven small radiators in the house. Big once are on but the small once are off most of the time and when I turn all of them on some never get hot.

    Would anybody know what's the problem. I heard about the Boiler Feed Pumps, do I need one?

    Please help.

    Thanks.
  • gerry gill
    gerry gill Member Posts: 3,010
    oh me oh my..

    another boiler piped badly..find a competant steam pro...whats that silver stuff on the insulation? looks like reynolds aluminum..since the installer couldn't read i don't know if the pipes are sized right, if the boilers been skimmed enough, etc.etc. Good boiler tho..
    gwgillplumbingandheating.com
    Serving Cleveland's eastern suburbs from Cleveland Heights down to Cuyahoga Falls.

  • crash2009
    crash2009 Member Posts: 1,484
    edited January 2012
    Rule #1 Broken

    The problem is that your boiler needs to be re-piped.  Here is a fine example of how it should look when done.  The biggest mistake that your previous installer made was to install the system risers (that is the 2 pipes that go up into the house) in between the boiler risers (thats the 2 pipes coming out of the boiler).  When we see an installation that breaks rule #1, naturally we assume that all the rules are broken and that your previous installer doesn't have a clue.  What is the model number of your boiler?  So we can get you the manual to see for yourself.
  • BobC
    BobC Member Posts: 5,228
    Terrible install

    Gerry's right again, that boiler was not installed per the manufacturers piping instructions. The takeoffs from the header should come after both boiler riser feeds NEVER from between them. Taking the output of the header from between the boiler risers causes a lot of water to be thrown up into the piping which can and will drop the water level in the boiler enough to cause that auto water feeder to come on.



    That near boiler piping has to be torn out and redone, it will never operate correctly like that and you may void the warranty by operating it like that. Find yourself a good steam man, where are you located?



    I've attached a drawing showing how a Burham megasteam is to be piped and you will note the steam takeoff comes AFTER both boiler risers connect to the header. You should have the boiler install manual, look up the piping instructions and you will see what i mean. If you don't have the install manual tel us the boiler model and we will tell you where to find a copy.



    What pressure is the boiler running at, it should be below 2 PSI on the pressure gauge, higher pressure just makes things worse.
    Smith G8-3 with EZ Gas @ 90,000 BTU, Single pipe steam
    Vaporstat with a 12oz cut-out and 4oz cut-in
    3PSI gauge
  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 17,037
    I might add...

    that until the near boiler piping is fixed, there isn't much you can do.  You can -- and should -- check two things for a sort of interim band-aid, until you can get that done: first, make very sure the pressure is correct (as mentioned, no more than 2 psi cutout, preferably less).  Second, check that autofeeder.  Many of the newer ones have a time delay for feeding, to allow condensate to return.  With the way your piping is arrange you are going to need all the delay you can get, as water is just going to be sucked out of that poor boiler by the piping and sprayed all over the pipes.  However, you might be able to adjust the feeder so that it delays long enough to not over fill the system...  might not, too.
    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
  • Abracadabra
    Abracadabra Member Posts: 1,948
    leaking auto feeder

    Check for a leaking autofeeder.







    disconnect the union at the feeder outlet and see if it's leaking.  hopefully the guy piped it right and put in a union after the feeder.  otherwise you can shut off the water to the boiler and see if water level stabilizes.  
  • zagor
    zagor Member Posts: 5
    Two pipes Installed Wrong

    Hello folks,

    first of all I would like to thank you all for your great help, without you I would continue going on with my heating system wrongly installed. Since this is the case I decided to do some work on my own and get the best out of that boiler. Unfortunately I don't have enough knowledge and I still need your help for which I am grateful in advance.

    So my first question is about F&T traps.

    What are the names and how do I know what trap and size is right.

    On the drawing I have indicated detail number 2, these pipes are under the floor and there is no way I could reach them without cutting the floor. Can I put F&T trap in the area indicated by number 1, right on the pipe 1.5" just before where Main1 meets it . By the way there is an air vent that spits and hisses when the heat is on. It looks like somebody in the pass added this pipe to bring some extra steam to the Main2 because there is much more demand on that side. At the same time this pipe is a wet return. The radiators in the far extension get hot and cold but I think they never got hot all of them at the same time.

    How about installing F&T at point A, disconnect the rest of the Main2 and connected to the return at point B.

    Thanks.
  • Good Steam Man

    I have wrong near boiler piping similar to this. Do you know a good steam man in the Front Royal - Winchester - Warrenton, VA area?
  • Dave in QCA
    Dave in QCA Member Posts: 1,766
    Drawing?

    Was there supposed to be a drawing with your last post? 
    Dave in Quad Cities, America
    Weil-McLain 680 with Riello 2-stage burner, December 2012. Firing rate=375MBH Low, 690MBH Hi.
    System = Early Dunham 2-pipe Vacuo-Vapor (inlet and outlet both at bottom of radiators) Traps are Dunham #2 rebuilt w. Barnes-Jones Cage Units, Dunham-Bush 1E, Mepco 1E, and Armstrong TS-2. All valves haveTunstall orifices sized at 8 oz.
    Current connected load EDR= 1,259 sq ft, Original system EDR = 2,100 sq ft Vaporstat, 13 oz cutout, 4 oz cutin - Temp. control Tekmar 279.
    http://grandviewdavenport.com
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