old oil burner ?s

jdb

I have an old coal-to-oil conversion cast iron boiler, that is gravity-fed, and cannot be run at less than 100,000 btu/hr. Has a Beckett burner manufactured in the '60s. Has been dead reliable for over 25 yrs. Burns about 600 gals. a yr. in a 900 sq. ft. house w/ 2 stories, an unheated attic, and basement, where boiler is. 







Is an aqua stat setting of 170 degrees about right? It is an old Timken model. 







Is there any other way to increase efficiency in a boiler like this?







The house has no insulation, all brick construction.







What would be the cheapest way to swap out to a natural gas boiler (the water pipes are like 1-1/2 or 2 inch steel)?  



The boiler has some kind of insulation (like a cement) on it; any chance it would, or would not, be asbestos?  







Would it make sense to stay with a gravity fed system?







We are not living there, but it is presently occupied, and we are trying to sell it, so cost is a major factor.  







What would be the lowest thermostat setting if unoccupied in winter (eastern PA)? 







Would appreciate any comments. 







Sorry for the rambling nature.  

bill nye_3

Old

 I think you already know the answer.  So, my wiseguy response would be, "Got any friends in FLORIDA ?"



coal boiler, no insulation, etc. Sorry but it is time to upgrade to newer stuff.

jdb

Answers?

Appreciate the sarcasm  



I was putting out feelers to minimize our expenses while it is unused by us.  

Not likely we would replace it, unless it is possible to swap it out for a few thousand.



Since  we have it, I would like specific answers to some of the questions.



Thanks.

nicholas bonham-carter

unoccupied house

i would think that the best way to save money would be to insulate as much as you can, and perhaps get some storm windows. you could set the thermostat at 50, if there are no severe air leaks where the pipes and plumbing are. if you put an inexpensive digital indoor/outdoor thermometer where the plumbing is, it will give you the highs, and lows. from those readings you can vary the thermostat setting. anything covering the boiler most likely has some sort of asbestos in it. as the system is gravity, it must have higher temperatures to keep the thermo-syphon flow going. a new boiler would have a pump, and maybe outdoor reset to vary the water temperature with the outside air temperature which is a bit more economical.

there is a book available from the shop here which specifically addresses the question of managing old systems like yours. --nbc

icesailor

Old Oil?

What do you mean you have to run it at 100.000 BTU minimum?

There's things you can do. But you sound like you don't want to spend any money.

If no one is living there, why would you leave the house running? I would drain it completely.

For short money, you can turn it into outdoor reset. The boiler water temperature is controlled by the outside temperature. It just interrupts the high limit. If it was gravity coal and converted, it is my understanding that they were usually designed for 170 degree water. If the high limit is set for 180 degrees, which they usually are, you are over firing it.

If you or no one else is going to live there and you don't want to spend any money on the place, drain it.

jdb

retrofit

Well, would like to know the easiest way to remove and replace with a natural gas boiler with the least amount of retrofitting.

Thanks for the replies. 

I'm basically just trying to live with it until we can sell it, or replace it w/o spending mucho dollars. You see, the house just isn't worth that much, like 30-40k, is about it. Closer to the low side right now.

jdb

100,000 btu

Asked Tim McElwain a while ago, gave him my model name and #, and he said it can't be run at less than 100,000 btu, more if it had summer/winter hookup.

I asked him because wasn't getting much from the Wall.

Not trying to spend zero dollars, just trying to minimize expenditures. And look for ideas.

If this was your house, what would you do?

Just saying $8-10,000 is a pretty large percentage of the home's value.

icesailor

Values:

If it is worth $30,000, and you put $10,000 in heating improvements, and it won't be worth $40,000, it isn't worth putting the money if you aren't in it for the long haul.

as far as what I would do on the cheap and modern, I'd put in El Cheapo gas boiler, tie the supply and return together through a Taco "I" series 4-way mixer with a circulator on the return, and tie the supply and return on the system together with a circulator through the system side of the 4-way mixer. Connect the outdoor reset. It's the cheapest modernization you can do other than just ripping out the old boiler and replacing it with whatever.

And add in the cost of asbestos remediation.

bill nye_3

IF

If the house doesn't owe you anything and if you are not going to recoup your investment I would just sell the house "as is" and walk away.



 Just tell the new buyer Like Dude, it's an old house.

Jamie Hall

As a fundamental answer...

Yeah, if it's unoccupied, drain it and turn everything off.  Otherwise, you probably have an obligation as the landlord to maintain a minimum temperature -- that varies with jurisdiction.  That said...

Here goes on your specific questions:



Is an aqua stat setting of 170 degrees about right? It is an old Timken model.

Probably.  It is unlikely that you can increase the efficiency much by fiddling with it.



Is there any other way to increase efficiency in a boiler like this?

In a word, no.



What would be the cheapest way to swap out to a natural gas boiler (the water pipes are like 1-1/2 or 2 inch steel)?

Just do it.  You'll need new near boiler piping -- pri/sec loops, pumps, valves



The boiler has some kind of insulation (like a cement) on it; any chance it would, or would not, be asbestos?

Can't guarantee without an analysis, but it would be a very good bet that there is asbestos in it.



Would it make sense to stay with a gravity fed system?

Not really, not for decent efficiency.  But there is no reason to change out all the pipes and radiators -- just add the new boiler and pumps right there.  And stop.



We are not living there, but it is presently occupied, and we are trying to sell it, so cost is a major factor.

As one of the guys said, I'd be inclined to sell it as is -- with the comment that "like, Dude, it's and old house"



What would be the lowest thermostat setting if unoccupied in winter (eastern PA)?

OK.  If you're not going to occupy it all winter, drain it and turn off the electricity.  That's the safest and cheapest way to go.  If it's going to be left for say a month, you can't do that; 45 would be as low as I'd go -- and that leaves you almost no margin at all for a power failure or furnace outage.  If a week or less, I'd not set back more than 10 degrees from whatever you normally have it running at.