Heating Costs

Mark N

Read an article this morning in the Star Ledger business section. The article was about shale fracking. They report on an analysis done by the AARP Public Policy Institute on heating costs for seniors. This is what they found. Natural gas customers will average $542 to heat their homes this winter, those using heating oil will average $2,675, and those using electric will average $468. I don't know what their sample size was or where the homes were located. I would assume the homes using heating oil are mostly in the northeast and the upper midwest. But the numbers do make one think.

icesailor

Heating Costs

I think that the article in the AARP publication was written by the Natural Gas providers as a tool to get folks to switch to Natural Gas.

Robert_25

lots of other variables

I don't disagree that NG is "cheap" right now, but don't forget that most fuel oil is sold in the Northeast where houses tend to be old, far apart, and in a COLD climate.  It would have been interesting if they also had the gross annual btu's requirements of the houses they got the costs from.

Gordy

If thats the case Ice Sailor

 Then why have electric cheaper than NG. I think the electric number is way low, unless they are picking cheapest possible rate in the country.



 For the heck of it lets share per 100,000 btu in your neck of the woods. Cost being after all end user fees.



Northern Illinois

NG  .82 / 100000 Btu  .82cents Therm  100000 Btu content per Therm

Electric 3.37 / 100000 Btu   .115cents KWH 3412 btu content per KWH

LP  2.70 / 100000 Btu   $2.48 Gal  91500 Btu content

#2 Fuel  2.47 / 100000 Btu  $3.42 Gal  138500 Btu content



Gordy

 

 

Mark N

Costs?

I don't know how they derived at their numbers. I also didn't read the AARP report. This I do know since had my oil boiler replaced with a gas one 3 years ago the price I pay for gas has dropped over $.50 a therm. The price I pay for electric hasn't changed. Not sure what the current price for heating oil is. Over the last 3 years since converting my yearly heating costs have averaged $820. The last 3 years I was on oil I averaged about $1500 for oil.

Robert O'Brien

Ice

Do you think it's a secret that NG is 35% cheaper than oil? That's right here in  Long Island NY, the largest oil heat market in the country. BTW,all those gas boilers cold start with no problems!

bob eck

My Heating costs

I live in a old home built in the early 1900. I installed new windows but will be adding insulation in the walls.

My old boiler was a Weil Mclain 4 section cast iron oil boiler with a domestic coil in it.

for the last two heating seasons I have a Triangle Tube Prestige Excellence PE110 Nat gas boiler. The system has cast iron radiators.

Last year my cost for heating + domestic  hot water and cooking gas was only $1076. 

If I still had oil last year with the old boiler it would have cost me about $2740 plus when we had oil we cooked with electric and my full bathroom on the back of the house was heated with a electric baseboard (now heated with nice cast iron radiator) and the electric stove plus electric baseboard that would have cost me about $400

Nat gas has saved me big $$$$$ plus my local gas utility about one month ago their cost of Nat gas went DOWN - 13.5%

I have nothing against the local oil dealers but many home owners in my area are switching to Nat gas big time.

Patchogue Phil_2

NG costs with all fees included?

The 35% cheaper for NG,  does that have all fees/taxes included?

Robert O'Brien

Prices

http://nyserda.ny.gov/en/Page-Sections/Energy-Prices-Supplies-and-Weather-Data/Home-Heating-Oil/Average-Home-Heating-Oil-Prices.aspx







http://nyserda.ny.gov/Page-Sections/Energy-Prices-Supplies-and-Weather-Data/Natural-Gas/Monthly-Average-Price-of-Natural-Gas-Residential.aspx

Long Beach Ed

Converted

While I've long championed the benefits of oil, this summer we converted all our places to natural gas.  In addition to the price advantage, which has been with us for several years now, oil retailers continued to screw us and reduce the quality of their service. 



The quality of oil has also deteriorated, causing us to heave to clear clogged lines many times last year.   We also ran dry several times last year even with automatic delivery.



Enough was enough.  Twenty five years of loyalty was lost when our retailer no longer provided metered delivery tickets, claiming we had to "take their word" for the amount of product delivered. 



While gas is saving us lots of money, much of that can be attributed to long put off work of boiler replacement, steam repiping and improvements.  



But I would never believe a thing printed by AARP.  Their editorial contents always appears to go to the highest bidder.  

Jamie Hall

And an astonishing number

of folks, particularly in rural areas -- including very large chunks of New England -- simply don't have the option.  You want to stay warm, you heat with wood or oil.

Patchogue Phil_2

Propane too

Many have propane as an option too.

BobC

Boston energy costs

I currently heat with oil but will switch when the boiler (V75) needs replacing or the oil tank gets to old to trust. I don't think it's worth it to switch just for the fuel savings unless you burn a lot more fuel than I do. Right now my oil guy is getting $3.26 a gallon for oil and that is about as good as your going to do in the Boston area.



For 140,000 BTU of energy in the Boston area

  Electricity     6.20

  Oil                3.26

  Natural gas  2.30



Those number include the cost of the product plus delivery and taxes. Oil and gas are roughly the same as far as efficiency goes but electric heat is 100% vs say 80% for the average boiler so the true cost of using electricity is probably about $5.00.



You can rest assured that the cost of natural gas will go up 40% the year I switch.



Bob

Patchogue Phil_2

Electric costs

electric heat is 100% vs say 80% for the average boiler so the true cost of using electricity is probably about $5.00.



It still costs you $6.20 out of your pocket.  I'm not sure that the power co will accept paying $5 for every $6.20 they bill you.    :-)

Robert_25

LP

In my area propane is usually 2nd only to electric in terms of cost/btu. NG isn't available on any of the rural roads, so oil is still king.

Robert_25

Dual rated

"You can rest assured that the cost of natural gas will go up 40% the year I switch."



Put in a boiler that is rated for gas & oil, like a Smith Series 8. Then you are only a burner swap away from telling the gas company to take a hike.

BobC

equivalent amount of heat

I should have said the cost of an equivalent amount of heat from a gas or oil boiler into the living space would probably cost about $5.heating the whole house with electric heat would be very expensive but using it to supplement the heat in one room can make sense.



Bob

Jean-David Beyer

So what?

I notice that if the price of natural gas goes up, the cost of electricity generated from burning gas will have to go up too. And whover is selling the cheapest fuel can always raise the price until it is just under the other fuel (if you are in an unregulated state), or as fast as the P.U.C. will let them (in a regulated state). So if one of the fuels is noticably cheeper than the others, its price will rise to be about the same.

04090

Rate doesn't figure......

Here's what Boston Gas (National Grid) posts gas cost as, bottom line is $1.38 per therm:



http://gasrates.nationalgridus.com/ne/BostonRatesNov1-2011.pdf



The most recent rate R3 bill that came was for $1.51 per therm.



23CCF = 24 therms

.3441 minumim charge

1st 9.7 @ .233

next 14.3 @ .265

adjustment 24 x.124

supply charge .658

Bottom line $34.85 for 23 CF or 24 therms, and no connection to what was posted.



Does anyone else with National Grid have a similar bill?

ChrisJ

Northwest NJ

I just switched to NG from oil and using my own gas bill vs local oil prices NG is 50% cheaper then oil and this is with all fees included.



I don't see how electric heat would rank the cheapest.  Last time I looked even an electric water heater, though insulated better still costs more to run than a NG one.  Something isn't right there along with the NG vs Oil pricing. 



I think mine came to $1.14 per therm with all fees included but could be mistaken.  NG is pretty cheap in my area and always has been.  I'm seeing oil as cheap as $3.19 a gallon right down the road over the past week. 

Patchogue Phil_2

Natl Grid gas Bill on Long island

Here is a bill from Natl Grid.  Granted it is a low use month and could be skewed by the prior month being an estimated reading.





Hmmmm...  picture is shrunk small for some reason.

icesailor

Commodity Speculation:

My comment wasn't to start something about the cost of Natural Gas as opposed to fuel oil, it was that the price of oil has been speculated by the Banksters and The Wall Street Crime Family. LP and #2 oil are priced about the same per gallon, not per BTU.

There was a segment on 60 minutes a few years ago on how one of the biggest brokerage houses owned an overwhelming majority of fuel storage facilities in the Northeast. That fuel oil dealers in the NE liked Vermont were getting price changes on product in tankers on an hourly basis.

Natural Gas is a commodity. With total Wall Street commodity de-regulation, Natural Gas will go up. It's too cheap. Once everyone gets done converting to gas, they have you.

Oil companies have been put between a rock and a hard place. Their margins on product is so low, they barely make expenses.

It's typical big fish eating the little. Big gas sells in the easy market and drives the little fish out of the market. Those in the country, have no access to Nat. Gas, only oil and LP. Living in the country costs a lot of money

Gordy

Hook, Line, and Sinker

I hear what you are saying IceSailor. Its a one two punch. Drop NG to lure in the conversions, and when they are happy with the amount of consumers they acquire bang the price will go up.



 But remember  electric generation plants that are NG fed will go up also. Electric rates are already high in my part of the country. Maybe not compared to some areas, but 11.5 cents a KW is high to me. 



 Every one also has to remember that electricity is 100% efficient when it hits your home, but take into account Generating, and transmission losses it loses a little luster. Fossil fueled heating appliances generate heat quicker than same electric also.



Gordy