Help. A year later, more questions…

Julian Ku

So it has been a year since I last wrote about the problems we had with our new boiler installed in May 2010. (see <a href="http://www.heatinghelp.com/forum-thread/134028/New-Boiler-Old-Problems-Lots-of-Questions">http://www.heatinghelp.com/forum-thread/134028/New-Boiler-Old-Problems-Lots-of-Questions</a>)



We were having major air vent problems, a mysterious “BOOM” sound that terrified my wife especially in the middle of the night. Thanks to advice we received on this site, we repiped our system in January 2011. Additionally, we downsized the burner nozzle in Feburary 2011 which seemed definitely help the air vents hissing, etc… Overall, the heating system is working better but it still seems to be plagued by problems. Are these problems one-offs or is there a common reason behind this?



The latest problem is our burner nozzle. My wife noticed an oil stain below the Riello 40 burner box that spilled onto the concrete stand and onto the floor. We were first told by our oil provider mechanic that it was a mere loose pipe joint and he used a wrench, though not an appropriate one since he did not have his service truck with him, to tighten that. But given all the issues we have had with replacing almost every part on our boiler, we called our heating contractor who installed the boiler last May. He took a look and said there was a problem with the burner fire. (He believed that when the boiler was serviced for the annual tune-up by the mechanic from our oil provider, something happened.) In turn, the heating contractor called his heating oil technician.



The heating oil technician said the nozzle was bent way out of shape (“he must have sat on it” or something like that) and needed to be replaced. But a new part was not available. He made the old nozzle work and we are waiting for the new part. This was Tuesday the 6th. How could Riello 40 burner nozzle part not be in stock and available for overnight delivery?



I think every instrument on our boiler has had a problem and have been replaced. For instance, during the annual tune-up at the beginning of the heating season in September, the mechanic from the oil provider discovered a defective water feeder valve. So this probably meant the heating system had excess water sitting in the boiler and pipes for goodness knows how long?



Back in February, there was a problem perhaps with the low water cut off. We were out of the country for work from February to July and our house sitter called to say there was no heat in the house. Our heating contractor thought that when our house sitter blew down the Low Water Cut Off the float did not rise back up and fed water into the boiler until it could not make steam.



And I have questions why my TWO PSI readers at at zero when the system is running. And why does the top corner of my brick chimney look so brownish, so burnt?



It is true the heating system runs better and is quiet now. Back in February, our heating contractor asked his oil burner technician to downsize the firing nozzle in the burner and adjust the burner, etc… The heating contractor said he was merely following the manufacturer’s guidelines during installation but after all the problems we had, he realized overfiring may have been the cause of the heating problems. This is after the skimming process was changed so the water looks clear now. Well the heating cycle itself seems to run smoothly. As well as the “BOOM” noise, my wife thinks she still hears it once in a while but she is not 100% certain that it is the same noise.



So 2 sets of questions. What is the deal with this bent out of shape burner nozzle piece? Is this a one-off or could it be connected to all the various problems we have had since the installation of the boiler in May 2010? And what about the discovery of defective water feeder valve?



And could the heating problems we had since May 2010 be simply because of burner overfiring? While the downsizing of the burner nozzle in February and more proper skimming resulted in smoother, quieter heating cycles, we still had the no heat episode in Feburary, the defective water feeder valve in September and now this bent out of shape burner nozzle. Are these types of problems common?



I appreciate thoughts folks out there may have…

nicholas bonham-carter

many problems while far away

when i read of your problems, i am glad to be burning gas!

have you been able to correct the "gauges at zero"? it is most important to see the pressure of the system in ounces while it is running. a non-functioning gauge may indicate a clogged pig-tail, which should have been corrected by one of the technicians who has recently attended to your boiler. in addition, if the gauge cannot "see" the pressure, then also the pressuretrol as well will not be able to perform its duty, resulting in excess pressure.

as far as the nozzle having been sat upon, surely this is a piece made of solid metal, and therefore could not have been deformed without considerable force.

could the common thread of your problems with the system be due to a number of inexperienced technicians having mauled various parts of the system into inactivity?--nbc

Julian Ku

ugh, accurate PSI reading, and more...

Thanks for your comment. My boiler has two PSI gauges. One is defective and runs from zero to 30. A detailed one was installed in February or March to get a very accurate reading and runs from zero to 3. When the system is running, it does not seem the arrow moves to or above .05 though the arrow is a hairline above zero. When the system is not running, the arrow is below zero. So is the PSI gauge working? The heating contractor believes it is fine because the system is running so smoothly now.



As well as the concern that the boiler and now burner have been worked on many times, yes, different people working on it may not have been the best idea. But the heating contractor has been the main person working on this since the installation in May 2010. He brought in his heating oil technician a few times, first during installation in May 2010, then to downsize the burner fire in February this year, and then last week after he noticed the burner fire was not what it should be. The mechanic from the oil provider company, which we have an annual service contract with, has been here twice, once at the beginning of the heating season to tune up and that was when he noticed the water gauge valve was not working and second when he came in to assess the oil stain last week and tried to use a wrench to tighten the two bolts/joints right immediately outside the blue Riello burner box . (The mechanic was actually here to refuel the oil tank and so was able to assess the oil stain. My oil tank gauge was reading it had little oil left when in fact there was a clog between the crosslines? or the pipe between the two tanks. Now I cannot imagine that this is related to the other heating issues the system has been having.) So then for instance how could a burner nozzle get bent out of shape? Could the action of incorrectly forcing/tightening the bolts somehow bent the nozzle inside? Odd, odd, odd that there are these singular, or not, problems... Thanks for any additional insights.

BobC

Did the 0-3 PSI gauge ever move more?

If not the boiler and it's firing might just be perfectly sized to the radiators it is servicing.

Does the water in the sight glass move around at all? If not it might indicate something is plugged up in the sight glass. That might make it worthwhile removing the pigtail and cleaning both it and the port into which it threads to make sure there is no blockage.



You said the original gauge was no good but does it read any different than it used to? That might indicate more sleuthing about is required to make sure all is well.



As to the bent nozzle (did he mean the pipe the nozzle screws into?) I can't think of anything other than it getting stepped on while outside the oil gun.



Bob

Jamie Hall

Thoughts...

The 0 to 30 psi gauge may not be defective at all -- it just may never move perceptibly, as those things aren't very sensitive in the low pressure range we work in.  If the 0 - 3 psi gauge moves some -- especially on a longish run -- it's working, and that's probably OK.



The oil stain indicates a leak -- as you well know.  Wrenching on oil burner bits without the correct tools is asking for trouble.  And I can see no way to bend a Riello "nozzle" in any kind of normal careful work.  Need I say more?

Julian Ku

Responses...

Thank you for the responses. I wanted to wait until the heating cycle came up to check everything. The arrow on the 0-3 PSI gauge did move above zero and flickered up to 0.05. The (clear) water on the water glass was at around one-third mark and moved around a little as well.



I think the 0-30 PSi gauge on the boiler now is actually a replacement to the original defective gauge from the May 2010 installation. This newer 0-30 PSI gauge was installed maybe in January 2011? but because it cannot give a truly accurate reading, the heating contractor installed that as a temporary solution until a 0-3 PSI gauge became available in stock in February or March 2011.



Given the above, it seems like the system is running smoothly as the heating contractor had said.



As for the bent burner nozzle, again the heating contractor thought that something was done to it by not him but the mechanic from the oil provider perhaps in the September 2011 annual tune-up. My wife noticed the oil stain beneath the Riello burner blue box at the end of November. We don't know how long the stain had been there, but perhaps the oil leak worsened as the boiler came on more often in colder weather. I guess I will just wait and see what happens after the burner nozzle is replaced. By the way, how long should I have to wait for this burner nozzle part? I have been waiting for it since Tuesday the 6th. I cannot believe that these parts are not always in inventory.



Many thanks for the advice and help.

Jamie Hall

That 0 - 30 psi gauge

usually is required either by local code, your insurance, or both -- got to keep it.



Some burner parts, if they aren't common replacements (and that one isn't) may take a while to come.  Patience.  I might mention too that this isn't the best season of the year to get such things...

Julian Ku

thanks...

thanks for the availability info on the burner nozzle!

jpf321

do you know ..

exactly which part you are waiting for on your burner?

Page 18 .. here .. http://goo.gl/9KRWT ..

And where are you located? City/State?

I can see if my local Riello supplier has something for you.

Do you have a picture of the misshapen part?

You may also want to try these folks .. http://www.patriot-supply.com/products/manufacturer_detail.cfm?manu_id=101&startRow=221 .. I see they have a 3008634 "Regulator assembly" which is #45 in the parts diagram .. perhaps that's the culprit piece ..