New boiler, now vents all whistle

Jim Franklin

New Megasteam MST288. .75 GPH. 2 loops, 20' each not counting returns. New Gorton #1 on each loop, plus new Gortons on each radiator.



Last year I replaced all the vents with aforementioned Gortons and all was well, except for the hole at the water line. I patched it and it lasted until the landlord put in a new boiler in Oct. Now, all the vents whistle and hiss erratically. Not violently, but enough to wake me up each time the heat comes on. The mains do it too.



I checked the pitch of the pipes was correct. No drop header, but one takeoff for each loop. Here's a bad pic of the setup, mostly showing the returns & Hartford loop. Short of throwing a heavy towel over them, is there anything I can do to shut them up?



thanks,

jim

Jamie Hall

Step one...

check your pressures.  It's not unusual for a new boiler to be set too high, unless the party putting it in really knows steam.



Step two -- is this boiler bigger than the old?  If it is, it may be raising steam faster than the main vents can cope.  That could do it too...

nicholas bonham-carter

whistling in the basement

you probably need more gorton #2's on each loop, now that the pressure is not escaping through the holey boiler. how much pressure is there?--nbc

Jim Franklin

Re: New boiler, now all vents whistle

The PT is set to 1 PSI with 1.5 diff, though the shutoff valves leak just enough to never build pressure, or at least the small house is heating up before the pressure gets that high. Good point about the old hole letting pressure escape.



The water level drops about an inch, then bounces between there to almost an inch below that. The mains are 2" and the Hartford loop is 1.5".



I don't think this boiler is bigger, but I'm sure it heats the water more efficiently.



Sounds like I need more main venting...

Jason Quinn

Is the water dirty?

If the waterline is bouncing, the boiler may need to be skimmed.

Long Beach Ed

Dirty

Yep, I'd check for oil in the water.  Then I'd make sure the boiler isn't oversized and that it's piped properly using both risers.  Sounds like it's too big.

David Nadle

dirty water

In my limited experience, new boiler = dirty oily water = wet steam = noisy vents. It can take a lot longer than you might think to get that water clean.

Steamhead

How about

the near-boiler piping? Can you post a pic of that? 

LHthread

Water level varying within 1 inch...

Sounds like the water is stable when firing (making steam). jiggling / and staying within that 1 inch seems like you are Not Surging.

If all the radiators vents are whistling (and some are susseptable to that due to the escape hole placement by manufacture style)...and what I would do is install a varyvent made by Heatimer Inc.

The EOL (end of line ) vent could be a Gorton "D" vent which emits a more cfm of air expention.

Your boiler return piping and the hookup that the installer did using a "Y "connection is rare...and it appears he knew his stuff in doing so.  Most plumbers don't use that type of connection. That install is a Good Choice into the return at the hartford loop. Nice!

The boiler is firing ,75 GPH firing rate, but that may be reduced by underfiring by dropping to a .50 GPH Nozzle. i would assume (generally) that the firing oil pressure is rated upwards by firing at 140# PSI ?? this is sometimes the case in modern burners. That would give you a more atomized fuel spray pattern for combustion efficiency...and at the same time... rating the firing rate higher that .75 GPH of oil delivery.

Leaky Packing nuts on radiator S/Off valves is a bad thing. Leaks meand having to add more water. leaking dripping steam vents that do not seal completely, will escape steam (good for humidity, but not for adding water frequently.

Steam boiler water should have a treatment added to the water to eliminate oxygen and stabilize the ph of the water.

You can add  / tap in another line vent midway before the final EOL vent to even the line filling and steam flow. That is just tricks of the trade, and always is not the answer to venting noise. i would go with the Radiator varvalve vents first. Try a couple first and see how that works on one or two rads.

Have the leaky valve stems repacked with graphite packing string.

If in the long run...the steam is still too noisy..change over to Hydronic heat; but a piping revamping has to be done. Each Rad would need two pipes such as a supply and return for each. that would mean keeping the existing Radiators.

The Rads can be trashed, and fin tube baseboard heat can possibly be installed also.

I have forced Hot Water on standing radiation in my home...and it is the greatest.

It is limitless as to what can be done today with modern pex flexible tubing and etc.

Zoning is Nice Too... My small house..with 9 rooms all have their own Thermostat for zone control and even temperatures throughout.

Steamhead

The MegaSteam 288

uses a 0.60x60°A nozzle running at 150 PSI to get its 0.75 GPH firing rate.



I wouldn't just dump chemicals in a boiler, because then you have to wash them all out. This can be very difficult if they stuff gets out of the boiler and into the piping. It's better to flush and skim.



Main vents should all be located at the end of the main, so the entire main has access to the full venting capacity.



Those VariVents don't have floats so they can spit water, especially if someone opens them too far. We stay away from them.



And completely tearing out the steam system and putting in something else is an absurdly expensive "cure" for noisy vents. I highly doubt the landlord would do that after getting that MegaSteam installed.

Long Beach Ed

Varivents

Steamhead's right.  No landlord's ripping out a system, and replacing a working steam system is nonsense. 



You probably have a piping issue or boilier sizing issue. 



If the steam's dry, the VariVents will be quiet.  Unfortunately they'll break in a year also. 

LHthread

L A N D L O R D ...OOoops..

Wow.....senior moment not seeing that residence was Landlord Owned.

Darn...if it were a homeowner, and would like to save the old look of the standing radiation...and hiss and ping was annoying, then and only possibly I would convert to H/W.

I've never had a problem with treating boiler water on commercial applications. Too bad most of those Shot Feeders are never used by maintenance people.

Schools are the worst..and half of the operators don't even know what they are for.

But each to their own opinions. I guess that Black or Gold seal license means..sit at the desk, and wait for trouble.

I run liquid 8Way (By Stewart Hall ) in my system, and never had rusty water since 1985. Oh! Boy!...ain't that the kiss of death since I just mentioned it!!!

Jim Franklin

Loop size vs run size

One thing I noticed is that the actual loop is kind of small, and 2 of the 3 radiators on each loop have long runners leading to them, 8-10 feet or so. So it'd seem to me that larger main vents wouldn't help as much as it would on a system where the main loop ran under each radiator. Also the amount of air coming out of the existing No. 1 main vents isn't a lot; it would barely make a condensation mark on a mirror.



I'll try and find the camera tonight and take some better pics. Heating co is coming out Friday to have another look, unfortunately I can't be there.



jim