Electrical : wire in conduit

ChrisJ

I need to run a short piece of conduit down to my boiler and seem to recall not being able to run romex in a conduit because of heat dissipation issues.



Can I just strip the outer jacket off and use the wire from the romex or is that still against code?  All I am running is a gas boiler so I doubt the load is more than 1A @ 120V.

Tim McElwain

You can buy wire

made for running through conduit and it can be done very easily with a snake.



No you can not break the integrity of Romex and use it seperated.

Techman

Conduit/Romex

Regular Romex is NOT allowed to be run thru conduit? Either way ,if using EMT conduit an EMT x Romex fitting MUST be used at the top of the EMT. You are not supposed to just put the Romex into the EMT. And file the inside of the end cuts of the EMT ,those burrs will cut into the Romex.Hang on, my electrician buddy [ here in N.Y.] just informed me that what you have is called " a wiring change method" which  requirers the" Romex x EMT" fitting and technically  the outter jacket should be removed due to the heat dissapation concern. And some kind of conduit MUST be used on any wiring that is upto 8' from the floor. But "LOCAL CODES PREVAIL".

ChrisJ

Oh

techman, If I'm understanding you correctly they make a connector that goes on the end of the EMT conduit which will protect and clamp down on the romex?  So I would run my romex over from the panel and then straight into the conduit with the proper connector after stripping the jacket off from the length which will pass through the conduit?  This would then simply run into the box for the emergency cutoff switch on the side of the boiler.



Tim, I would rather not but more wire as I have a ton of romex. No need to snake as its a short piece of EMT.

Paul Pollets

MC

why not use a piece of MC cable? (Metallic shielded) it meets code and is easier to deal with than conduit.

Techman

THAT DEPENDS !

Do I KNOW what's what? NO WAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I work with an ELECTRICIAN , and I do as he does.! And then when I'm doing my HVACR thing for my customers I still do as he does. And ,yes. I did say that! Kinda Sorta ! Check your LOCAL codes. In 1990 I took the BOCES -Master Electrican, 60 hour course to learn how and why  they do what they do for my HVACR stuff .I AM NOT a Master Electrician. I'm a continuing learner. The fitting is only available in 1/2"EMTx Romex ,I think.

ChrisJ

MC

I'm curious what the difference between MC and BX is now?

The reason?  Cosmetics, no other reason.  I feel EMT looks better than the MC \ BX.

Techman

MC vs BX

The MC cable has a different wire inside the metallic jacket. The MC wire is our every day, common, THHN wire. And there is a Green ground wire. Do you use Greenfield ? That's empty BX, just the jacket. We carry THHN ,put it in the Greenfield and Presto ,MC cable ,but we carry some MC anyway.Just recently the newer BX has been with made with THHN ,but,no ground.

ChrisJ

Ah!

So my old Burnham V8 was wired with MC not BX (AC) wire.  I just did a little reading on it. 

Tim P._3

MC v BX v EMT

AC cable is what is referred to as BX.  It is designed so that the armor can be used as an equipment ground.  It has the distinctive black line on it so it can be identified).



FMC is what is referred to as Greenfield.  FMC is limited to a maximum of 6 feet for use as an equipment ground.  Important to note is that it is cumulative; 4 feet to the aquastat from the wall and 3 feet from the aquastat to the circulator and it is a violation.



If you put your own grounding conductor inside greenfield then you basically have MC, as was noted.



All of these wiring methods are cables.  Cables must be protected where subject to physical damage, whether it is NM or FMC.

ChrisJ

MC

Thanks for all of the responses.



I decided to go ahead and order some MC to wire the boiler.  Something I'm curious about is my Weil-Mclain boiler came with plastic strain reliefs and what they call 'strain relief adapters" to mount the reliefs in the standard 3/8" hole on components like the LWCO.

I'm one short, can these be bought anywhere or are they something custom by WM?  For the mean time I used a romex connector to keep the wires from being cut by the metal enclosure, but it by no means holds the wiring. 

Techman

MC / BX

Pssst ! ChrisJ ! Ask about MC / BX  connectors!

ChrisJ

MC / BX connectors

What about MC / BX connectors?

Alan Welch

what about emergency switch ?

I think you need a customer emergency switch in between panel and service switch with gas , it is required for oil heating.

ChrisJ

I don't think so

I believe in NJ they did away with that, however I have one anyway.



I have a shutoff at the top of the basement stairs as well as on the boiler. I also changed the switch covers from "OIL" to "GAS" just because thats how I am.

lchmb

actually

Code requires an uninterrupted service from the panel to the unit. In NH it is against code to install a stair switch and if found should be removed. You can have a service switch at the unit...

Jean-David Beyer

Emergency switch in NJ.

When my gas boiler was installed here in NJ in 2009, there had not even been gas in the house. The boiler is in the garage,  as is the electrical service entry panel. The boiler has its own circuit breaker that could be used as an emergency switch, but it is marked only in pencil on the card. There is a red switch right next to the boiler. There is also a little power switch on the boiler, but if you do not know where it is, you might not find it.



The electrical inspector, the gas inspector, and the fire inspector all came, actually got out of their cars and looked at the installation and passed it. Of course, they also passed the CSST gas line that was not bonded and not grounded. And they passed the air intake and exhaust vent PVC pipes that were purple primed but not glued. So that gives a hint at the inspection quality around here.

meplumber

Same in Maine.

As Ichmb posted, there must be an uninterrupted source between the panel and the appliance. The exception here is that a serviceman's switch is allowed at the appliance.



No emergency switch or TC-1 on gas up here.

Ron Jr._3

Really ?

What's the reasoning behind that ?



 Is a remote switch required for oil ? 

meplumber

Yes for oil

Ron, I am not sure about the reasoning. I have heard that they do not want the homeowner feeling safe on a gas appliance by turning off the switch. They want them to turn off the propane. Or better call a tech. It makes sense, if there is a problem, then you do not want them activating an electrical switch that might ignite a gas leak.



On oil, by killing power to the unit, you are shutting off the power to the pump, so no oil.



I am simply relaying rumors on the reasoning.

ChrisJ

Well

I'm keeping the second switch at the top of the stairs unless the inspector fails me for it. My thermostat doesn't have an "off" and I'd like to be able to flip the switch which is already installed.



IF he fails me for it I'll take the switch out and put a blank cover over the box but not until then.



Thanks for the warning though, at least I won't be surprised now.

Tim McElwain

This switch thing goes

back and forth over the years. The same with requiring a Firomatic for gas heating systems and a service switch for Powerpile systems.



Chris most of the time unless you are going with all new equipment the switch can be left alone. Many inspectors however require all new wiring on a new furnace or boiler install. You do have to have an un-interrupted line directly from the dedicated circuit breaker for heating both gas and oil. The switch in the stair way becomes a local thing by state and in some cases town by town.



When I bought my house many years ago the stairway switch said it was oil (it has always been gas). I went out and bought one that said gas just because that's what I do. The switch is still there and has not been shut off in years, oh well probably will not work if I try it.