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The FUN has begun...

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Comments

  • MikeyB
    MikeyB Member Posts: 696
    Indirect

    Very cool Mark, what made you choose a 119 gallon Reverse Indirect?, I know you like the Reverse style but I'm curious how you settled on a 119 gallon tank, and what brand do you you like & why?, what kind of hot water load does the house have, are there dump loads, alot of bathrooms? Please share your DHW sizing method. I am looking forward to see how you piped in the Indirect, I am sure it will look very sharp.
  • Mark Eatherton
    Mark Eatherton Member Posts: 5,853
    Big tanks....

    Mikey,



    There's one of those BIG 1 woman, 3 man Jacuzzi soaking tubs in the master bathroom, and 4 other showers throughout the house, plus two washing machines, 2 dishwashers, two kitchen sinks and on and on. OK, the tub only holds two people, but I estimate it will take about 100 gallons to fill.



    That tank is a Turbomax. I've been using them for about 10 years, and not had any failures, and NEVER had anyone complain about hot water shortages or fluctuations. It is of European design.



    It is piped counter flow, per the manufacturers installation instructions.



    It is prioritized per Lochinvars' instructions.



    As for sizing, I always use the Raypak sizing guide, and I've never had any problems. One thing in particular I like about the RP sizing guide is that you can substitute recovery for storage, and vice a versa and still cover the load. THese reverse indirects are really nothing more than a HUGE shell and tube heat exchanger (Think Everhot), and it can handle up to 400K btuH input, and will transfer 99% of the supplied energy and convert it to hot water. It also only requires a boiler target temperature that is roughly 10 degrees F hotter than the final hot water temperature, which keeps the boiler in the condensing mode, even when its doing DHW. Not many tank manufacturers can make and support that claim.



    Thanks for asking!



    ME
    It's not so much a case of "You got what you paid for", as it is a matter of "You DIDN'T get what you DIDN'T pay for, and you're NOT going to get what you thought you were in the way of comfort". Borrowed from Heatboy.
  • MikeyB
    MikeyB Member Posts: 696
    Termination

    Mark, what do you have in mind for the vent/intake termination for both boilers?
  • Mark Eatherton
    Mark Eatherton Member Posts: 5,853
    Terminations not finalized yet....

    The owner is going to commission a metal artist/sculpturist to do the vent termination. They might be a rocket ship, or maybe a Jetsons mobile.



    We thought about Gargoyle, but it doesn't really fit into the architecture...



    ME
    It's not so much a case of "You got what you paid for", as it is a matter of "You DIDN'T get what you DIDN'T pay for, and you're NOT going to get what you thought you were in the way of comfort". Borrowed from Heatboy.
  • Roland_18
    Roland_18 Member Posts: 147
    Terminations

    The only logical choice:
  • Simply Rad
    Simply Rad Member Posts: 184
    ME i think you are turning into a Martian



    Make sure to enjoy your holidays.  I will call you back soon.





                                                                                                         

    stamp1.jpg
    Jeffrey Campbell
  • Sven
    Sven Member Posts: 34
    saw the show

    and thought of this place after seeing Mark.

    Congrats and happy holidays.

    been a few years since I was here.



    Sven
  • Tim McElwain
    Tim McElwain Member Posts: 4,612
    Kathy Lee Gifford

    wife of Frank Gifford has a gargoyle terminating in here garden from her Munchkin out on Nantucket. Really wild in the middle of winter when everyting around it freezes up and forms an ice sculpter.
  • Gordy
    Gordy Member Posts: 9,546
    Now that

    Would be cool. Steaming Gargoyle, how creative.



    Gordy
  • Gordy
    Gordy Member Posts: 9,546
    Now that

    Would be cool. Steaming Gargoyle, how creative.



    Gordy
  • Mark Eatherton
    Mark Eatherton Member Posts: 5,853
    It is DONE...

    Well, MOSTY done. I have to move some improperly located T stats, make birth certificates for the boilers, generate a final drawing of as built, and other minor mechanical details, but it is done and running for the most part. Like listening to symphony when the appliances are running. Here are some pictures.



    Enjoy!



    I did. ;-)



    ME
    It's not so much a case of "You got what you paid for", as it is a matter of "You DIDN'T get what you DIDN'T pay for, and you're NOT going to get what you thought you were in the way of comfort". Borrowed from Heatboy.
  • Gordy
    Gordy Member Posts: 9,546
    Amazing

    Mark

     I gotta ask when you go into something like this. How much design is on paper, and how much is in the field on the fly. With you its probably all in your head, and now your going to draw it up when your done....Jealous.



    Gordy
  • SWEI
    SWEI Member Posts: 7,356
    Zow!

    That is a beautiful install. You don't by chance happen to own any copper mining stocks, do you?
  • Slimpickins
    Slimpickins Member Posts: 339
    Nice!

    Looks great! I couldn't see how you dealt with the condensate in the pics. Thanks for keeping fine craftsmanship alive and well!
  • Brent H.
    Brent H. Member Posts: 161
    Insulation?

    Mark,



    The install truely shows what can be done by a skilled craftsman.



    I have often wondered when looking at pictures on the site of nice installs, where is the insulation? It seems like quite a bit of heat would be lost before getting to its intended location.



    Beautiful work.



    -Brent
  • Mark Eatherton
    Mark Eatherton Member Posts: 5,853
    Gordy...

    Before I can generate a bid, I have to generate a conceptual drawing for pricing. I usually do that by hand. If the owner wants a detailed drawing, I use my original hand drawing, plus photography for the As Built drawing. I will share it with you all when I get it done.



    To be honest, once I get started, I don't usually have to go back to the drawing, but that comes from years of doing it. I will occasionally forget a peripheral device (like a temperature gauge or something simple), but not very often.



    Thanks for asking.



    ME
    It's not so much a case of "You got what you paid for", as it is a matter of "You DIDN'T get what you DIDN'T pay for, and you're NOT going to get what you thought you were in the way of comfort". Borrowed from Heatboy.
  • Mark Eatherton
    Mark Eatherton Member Posts: 5,853
    Copper stock...

    The owner is "old school". He WANTED copper. As previously stated, this is his tribute to the working trades people.



    The existing system was done in mostly PEX, and it looked like a bowl of spaghetti. Not pretty by any stretch of the imagination. I will have to track down the picture of the old mechanical room so you can see why he was not interested in using PEX.



    ME
    It's not so much a case of "You got what you paid for", as it is a matter of "You DIDN'T get what you DIDN'T pay for, and you're NOT going to get what you thought you were in the way of comfort". Borrowed from Heatboy.
  • Mark Eatherton
    Mark Eatherton Member Posts: 5,853
    Condensate....

    The lowest, furthest forward copper pipe is the condensate drain system. (I can hear it already, "COPPER for a condensate removal system? Is he CRAZY or what?")



    I've been doing some tests over the last 10 years, and I have found that copper handles condensate a lot better than we originally thought. It also is a natural anti bacterial, which keeps the problematic algae slime blooms at bay. The condensate goes to a sump with a pump and it then pumped to a plastic drain. All of the sanitary waste drains in this house are plastic, hence no reason to neutralize. By the time the condensate gets to the septic tank, it will be so diluted, its pH won't matter. Besides, the well water here is fairly acidic anyway due to the pine trees.



    Thanks for asking.



    ME
    It's not so much a case of "You got what you paid for", as it is a matter of "You DIDN'T get what you DIDN'T pay for, and you're NOT going to get what you thought you were in the way of comfort". Borrowed from Heatboy.
  • Mark Eatherton
    Mark Eatherton Member Posts: 5,853
    Insulation...

    would cover all that pretty shiny pipe ;-(



    I've warned the owner that it may be necessary to keep the mechanical room reasonably cool. He really wants to see the copper, in fact paid me to polish the copper and brass with Brasso, metal polish. He;s having his painter spray it with something called Diamond to keep it nice and shiny and avoid additional oxidation.



    If it gets too hot in the room, he knows that insulation will have to be done, but he wants to see how it works before he insulates, if at all. Bear in mind that this room has no heat source, other than the heating system, and it is on an ODR program, 3 of them actually, so heat loss from the pipes will be commensurate with heat demand.



    Time will tell.



    Thanks for asking.



    ME
    It's not so much a case of "You got what you paid for", as it is a matter of "You DIDN'T get what you DIDN'T pay for, and you're NOT going to get what you thought you were in the way of comfort". Borrowed from Heatboy.
  • Plumdog_2
    Plumdog_2 Member Posts: 873
    Are you Crazy?

    I just removed a copper condensate drain (4 years old) that had a hole all the way down the length of it at the bottom. Seen it before too, several times. Maybe you could sleeve some pvc?!. Love the Tribute to the Working Man. Tough to find anybody that cares these days.
  • Mark Eatherton
    Mark Eatherton Member Posts: 5,853
    LP or Natural gas?

    I've been testing copper on NG for a LONG time, and haven't had any failures.



    LP, now thats a different animal and I've not tested it.



    I had a copper drain waste heat recovery heat exchanger connected to the exhaust of my boiler here in DEnver, and was preheating the incoming cold water before it hit my DHW system, and ran it for 4 years, and when I pulled it, I fully expected to see a crevice on the bottom weir/flow line of the exchanger, and there was NO parent material missing.



    I also have numerous "samples" in my condensate receiver bucket, and again no issues, and more importantly, no algae/slime,



    And yes, I am crazy :-)



    ME
    It's not so much a case of "You got what you paid for", as it is a matter of "You DIDN'T get what you DIDN'T pay for, and you're NOT going to get what you thought you were in the way of comfort". Borrowed from Heatboy.
  • MikeyB
    MikeyB Member Posts: 696
    MER

    Very Nice Mark, thanks for sharing this project with us, now that is job is almost complete can we expect you will get back to work on your Book/Manuals you were planning on finishing and selling here on HH, thanks
  • Simply Rad
    Simply Rad Member Posts: 184
    That a boy!

    ME



    A few questions for the professor

    - I noticed you used CPVC for the first 10' or so of the exhaust.  Where did you get that length?

    -What are the rainbow lines running in front of the boiler control board?

    -How did you get that much space?  You were able to sign your name on that big of wall space!  The more space the, more creative we can get.



    Not to bad for a semi-retired guy....hahahahaha



    Great job

    Jeffrey
    Jeffrey Campbell
  • Mark Eatherton
    Mark Eatherton Member Posts: 5,853
    Still a work in progress Mikey..

    After the crash, I got so burnt out that I had to push it to the side due to a hectic work schedule, and that schedule is getting busier. Thanks for the reminder.

    And thanks for your patience.



    ME
    It's not so much a case of "You got what you paid for", as it is a matter of "You DIDN'T get what you DIDN'T pay for, and you're NOT going to get what you thought you were in the way of comfort". Borrowed from Heatboy.
  • Mark Eatherton
    Mark Eatherton Member Posts: 5,853
    Thanks Jeffrey...

    The use of CPVC is a requirement that is in the I&O manual. Fortunately for me, the expansion joints are also made of CPVC. This is a new requirement of Lochinvar, along with their requirement for 1" clearance to combustibles, which I have explained to them is going to create problems in the field. You can't take a 3" pipe, give it 1" clearance to combustibles, and expect it to fit within the confines of a 2 X 6 wall. The OD of this whole configuration would be 5.5", which doesn't leave any wood for structural considerations. I will say this for Lochinvar, they have a VERY WARY staff of legal beagles watching out for the companies interests. With the owner being an electrical contractor, he provided all of the parts (except the CPVC 90's which I got from Matt Carr at Dahl Denver.)



    The "space" was added on to the existing structure. The owner had a large track hoe literally scratching this new mechanical room space out of decomposed granite. If you look closely, you can see some of the rock outcropping jutting into the room to the left of the board. He's going to have that rock polished to highlight it. I call it his dilithium crystal farm for powering the space ship :-)



    At the end of the long hallway is his DiHydrogen Monoxide storage area...



    The rainbow array of conduit are just as much for show as functionality. The low voltage wiring for security, sound and communications are being run through the rainbows.



    I miss my naps.... :-)



    Thanks for asking.



    ME
    It's not so much a case of "You got what you paid for", as it is a matter of "You DIDN'T get what you DIDN'T pay for, and you're NOT going to get what you thought you were in the way of comfort". Borrowed from Heatboy.
  • Mark Eatherton
    Mark Eatherton Member Posts: 5,853
    Drawings....

    Timmy Mac, feel free to use these in whatever way they will help you. Same goes to anyone else in the education biz. Help your selves.



    Enjoy!



    ME
    It's not so much a case of "You got what you paid for", as it is a matter of "You DIDN'T get what you DIDN'T pay for, and you're NOT going to get what you thought you were in the way of comfort". Borrowed from Heatboy.
  • MikeyB
    MikeyB Member Posts: 696
    Dwgs

    Thanks for sharing this with us Mark, I know I asked this question a while back, but any chance of bringing your talent to the Long Island/New York area for some training and or seminars? 
  • Mark Eatherton
    Mark Eatherton Member Posts: 5,853
    No plans right now Mikey...

    But have bags, and will travel if you find a sponsor (wholesaler or rep agency) that is willing to pay my way.



    Thanks for asking tho...



    ME
    It's not so much a case of "You got what you paid for", as it is a matter of "You DIDN'T get what you DIDN'T pay for, and you're NOT going to get what you thought you were in the way of comfort". Borrowed from Heatboy.
  • PeterNH
    PeterNH Member Posts: 88
    Preferred Zone Valve

     

     

    Hello Mark,

    Wondering what brand of zone vavles you used.

    They look like Honeywell or Caleffi or?



    Thanks,

    Peter
  • Mark Eatherton
    Mark Eatherton Member Posts: 5,853
    Honeywell...

    V8043 (I don't remember the last digits, but it is the lower CV valve).



    ME
    It's not so much a case of "You got what you paid for", as it is a matter of "You DIDN'T get what you DIDN'T pay for, and you're NOT going to get what you thought you were in the way of comfort". Borrowed from Heatboy.
  • KCA_2
    KCA_2 Member Posts: 308
    Real nice job Mark

    I just now caught site of the post..  Looks good...  And if it looks good it probably works good..  OK.. Well..  Lol..



     Woody would be proud...



      :-)  KCA
    :-) Ken
  • Mark Eatherton
    Mark Eatherton Member Posts: 5,853
    Thanks Ken...

    It was one fun job. I'm planning on going up there and taking pictures of the finished product (Starship Enterprise control room) soon.



    Will post them when I get them.



    ME
    It's not so much a case of "You got what you paid for", as it is a matter of "You DIDN'T get what you DIDN'T pay for, and you're NOT going to get what you thought you were in the way of comfort". Borrowed from Heatboy.
  • KCA_2
    KCA_2 Member Posts: 308
    edited March 2012
    One other thing..

    I've been seeing more of the diamond background where I have always used plywood off the wall about 2" and painted white...  I like the diamond looking background better...  It's SEXY! ...  What is it and what does it cost?



      :-)  KCA
    :-) Ken
  • Jean-David Beyer
    Jean-David Beyer Member Posts: 2,666
    If it is what I think it is,

    it is called "diamond plate." It is commonly steel, but I suppose it is available in aluminum as well. It is usually heavy as it is used as something to walk on, and the "diamonds" are to reduce slipperyness.



    By heavy, I mean like 1/4 inch thick, not 0.062, 0.040, or something like that.
  • Paul Rohrs_14
    Paul Rohrs_14 Member Posts: 80
    Diamond Plate

    I think Jeffrey Young (Heatboy) was the first to post jobs on this site using diamond plate and thus the diamond plate rush ensued.



    We used quite a bit of it and prices may vary.   As it is a non-industry specific product I don't think Dan would mind discussing pricing of that material.



    I previously bought 4x8 sheets of Aluminum diamond plate 100/1000 thickness for about $180.00.  (It's been about 3-yrs now)



    Best,



    Paul
  • Mark Eatherton
    Mark Eatherton Member Posts: 5,853
    The owners idea...

    I'd probably have just used white Melamine, but the owner, who builds custom cars in his spare time, had used the diamond plate for lining the bed of a pickup truck (1957 Chevy 3 rear windows p.u. truck) with the diamond plate, and decided he wanted to use it.



    Got no arguments from me :-)



    ME
    It's not so much a case of "You got what you paid for", as it is a matter of "You DIDN'T get what you DIDN'T pay for, and you're NOT going to get what you thought you were in the way of comfort". Borrowed from Heatboy.
This discussion has been closed.