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Wanna finish my system?

Tracey
Tracey Member Posts: 30
Well, not really but I could use a little more info.

This is a 30x32 garage/shop with a 5-1/2" concrete floor with 4 250', (approximately), pex loops. It will be fed by a Central Boiler Classis wood burning boiler through 1" Pex supply lines.

I have a mixing valve installed and a Taco 007 circulater pump. I cna't remember whick 007 pump it is but it wires directly to a thermostat. (I'm 350 miles from home).

I'm attempting to attach a picture to show what I have.

My question is what thermostat do I need? Once again my memeory falls me and I used to have this info....

And also any other suggestions as to what I should do to make this system work good?

Comments

  • lchmb
    lchmb Member Posts: 2,997
    switching relay

    Get a taco 501 switching relay and then you can buy any t-stat you want. It's much better than having a line voltage t-stat...
  • Tracey
    Tracey Member Posts: 30
    Built in?

    I think the pump I have as the switching relay built in or somthin like that.
  • lchmb
    lchmb Member Posts: 2,997
    edited October 2011
    if so

     You can use the wirsbo radiant t-stat or similar. If it is in fact a standard 007 that you have you will need to pick up a switching relay.. It appears to be a standard 00 circ...
  • kcopp
    kcopp Member Posts: 3,721
    Yea you need a ...

    relay. Not one built in. Also I do belive that the wood boiler is an open/ non pressureized set up. You really should have a Bronze/ Stainless steel circulator.
  • Tracey
    Tracey Member Posts: 30
    Nope

    The pump isn't a standard 007. It has a circuit board inside the box where the wires hook up. Like I said, I'm workin on memory here and I don't have a very good one at that...! Haha

    The boiler itself has 2 standard 007 pumps, but the one shown in the pics is a different type. It's still a 007 but it is made to hook directly to the thermostat. I just can't remember exacly the model number. I've even been seaching taco'ssite but haven't found it yet. There's 3 pumps total. The 2 on the boiler itself and this one at the head of the radiant plumbing.

    You are correct kcopp, the boiler is an open system.
  • Tracey
    Tracey Member Posts: 30
    Think I found it.

    http://www.pexuniverse.com/store/category/taco-priority-zoning-circulators

    This is the pump I have I think. Called a priority zoning circulator.

    Will I need some sort of special t-stat or will about any low voltage one work? (I had a line voltage t-stat on the old forced air system and didn't reallylike the way it worked.)
  • Mark Eatherton
    Mark Eatherton Member Posts: 5,837
    Not the same pump...

    What you show in your photograph is NOT a 007 prioity zoning relayed pump.



    You will have tp set a relay/transformer relay package before you can use a low voltage thermostat.



    ME
    It's not so much a case of "You got what you paid for", as it is a matter of "You DIDN'T get what you DIDN'T pay for, and you're NOT going to get what you thought you were in the way of comfort". Borrowed from Heatboy.
  • Slimpickins
    Slimpickins Member Posts: 323
    edited October 2011
    not piped correctly

    You don't have the mixing valve in correctly. You have the mix outlet of the mixing valve on the return from the manifold that tees back to the return on the boiler.  You need to pump out of the mix outlet directly into the supply manifold and the return manifold tees into the cold inlet of the mixing valve and back to the return of the boiler. Close but no cigar. And yes you do need a switching relay to make that work and most conventional T stats will work.



    If you're in the surrounding Denver area and do need help finishing. I'm between jobs and could help you.
  • Tracey
    Tracey Member Posts: 30
    Oops.

    Ok Mark you are probably right about that not being the priority zoning pump in the pic. (Good eye by the way!) After reading your reply and looking at the pic again I see that it was takin before the concrete was poured... Duh. The pump in the pic is a spare I'd bought before I got the zoning pump. I just put it on there to seal the system so I cold pressurize it with air while the concrete was being poured.

    I do have the priority zoning pump on the system now and will try to remember to snap a new pic when I get home this weekend and get the actual part number.

    Slim, Ya may have to draw me a picture of what you're talkin about on the plumbing... LOL I think I'm folowing ya, but I'll have to check it out in person when I get home.

    BTW, I live in MO and I'm workin in SD... Long drive from CO. LOL

    The supply line from the boiler is the top one in the pic just to add some info to make sure I have that correct also.

    Thanks guys. I'll keep an eye on this here and add info or more questions along the way. I'd like to put water in this system this weekend if I can.
  • lchmb
    lchmb Member Posts: 2,997
    piping

    I cant draw so I found a pic to try and help. Notice the direction the circulator is pulling out of the mix side of the mixing valve...you need the circ to pull on both the hot and cold so the circ isnt restricted...
  • Slimpickins
    Slimpickins Member Posts: 323
    Thanks Ichmb

    thanks for supplying a pic of what I was talking about, much better than a drawing.
  • Ironman
    Ironman Member Posts: 6,367
    Another Consideration

    I don't know how much of a temperature swing you can tolerate in your garage, but if you use a thermostatic mixing valve you're gonna have a wide one. Thermostatic valves work well with staple up radiant which is low mass, but a slab is high mass and the best way to control water temp to it is with a smart valve or variable speed injection which work of outdoor reset. This is where the water temp is varied to match the outdoor temp.
    Bob Boan
    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
  • Tracey
    Tracey Member Posts: 30
    edited October 2011
    Ok

    I think I have the mixing valve plumbing figured out. I made a crude "paint" job with my original pic last night and it matches the arrangment of the mixers in ichmb's pic.



    Ironman, While I'm no expert, I don't think I can use a outdoor reset. I don't know what a smart valve is or variable speed injection either.

    I'm thinkin the trouble I would run into with the outdoor reset in varying the water temp. Does this take place after the zoning pump? The boiler isn't adjustable as far as water temp goes. It keeps the water right around 185 degrees. My plan was to use the mixing valve to reduce the temp of the water in the actual in slab loops. I think 120 degrees is considered the max temp for the water in the concrete slab. ?

    An outdoor reset would be great if it would work without varying the water temp inside the boiler. 
  • Tracey
    Tracey Member Posts: 30
    ?

    My thumbnail pic shows my rearranged plumbing but when I click on it to enlarge it it shows the same pic as I originally posted??? Does it show up for everybody that way?
  • Tracey
    Tracey Member Posts: 30
    edited October 2011
    Maybe this one?

  • Slimpickins
    Slimpickins Member Posts: 323
    there ya go

    You got it right now!
  • Tracey
    Tracey Member Posts: 30
    Cool!

    Thanks slim! Looks like I'll get to do a little plumbing this weekend.

    Good to know before I fill the system with water though!

    So if I have the priority zoning pump, (and I'm sure I do), anyt old "normal" t-stat will work, correct? Any recomendations on brand, style, features, etc?
  • lchmb
    lchmb Member Posts: 2,997
    I like

    wirsbo radiant t-stats. They are designed to work with your style system..When I posted the original comment I wasnt paying attention to detail, my mistake
  • Ironman
    Ironman Member Posts: 6,367
    reset

    Reset would take place in the radiant loop, not the boiler. Whether you use a smart valve (like Taco's) or variable speed injection (like Tekmar), you're varying the temp in slab to match the load. A system like this that is properly done with the reset curve set right would only need the thermostat as a high limit control. Your present mixing valve would be removed.
    Bob Boan
    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
  • Tracey
    Tracey Member Posts: 30
    edited October 2011
    Try it this way...

    Ok guys, I got some updated pics and another question. First pic is the actual pump on the system right now.





    2nd pic is with the plumbing rearranged.





    3rd and 4th pics brings up the question. Which oriantation is the correct way for the mixing valve as far as inlet goes? I think it should be like the 3rd pic?



  • Tracey
    Tracey Member Posts: 30
    edited October 2011
    Try the pcs one at a time

    #1.......
  • Tim Potter
    Tim Potter Member Posts: 264
    Close to KC???

    Are you close to KC?
    Winter Park, CO & Lenexa, KS
  • Tracey
    Tracey Member Posts: 30
    Attempt #4

     maybe...
  • Tracey
    Tracey Member Posts: 30
    Pics...?

    Can't seem to get the pics to post at all.
  • Tracey
    Tracey Member Posts: 30
    one last time

    Is there a pic limit here?
  • Tracey
    Tracey Member Posts: 30
    edited October 2011
    Can U see 'em?

    Ok I think I finally got the pics up. I can see 'em anyway. Do they show for you guys? (They're 6 posts above this one.)
  • Tracey
    Tracey Member Posts: 30
    Reset?

    Ironman, I didn't see your latest post about the outdoor reset until now. That sounqs like an excellent way to work a system like this. 

    So the reset replaces my mixing valve, (damn, that was 80 bucks... LOL), and just varies the loop temps in accordance to the outside temp? I have it in my mind that is pretty similiar to the way the mixing valve works except the mixing valve just has a set temp range and no way to "sense" outdoor temp? 
  • lchmb
    lchmb Member Posts: 2,997
    you

    need to have the pump pulling from the blended side of the mixing valve and pushing into the radiant zone.
  • Tracey
    Tracey Member Posts: 30
    Yea

    That's what I thought. But I still confused by which is hot input, cool intake, and blended output to the pump/loops.

    Here is how I originally had it plumbed, but I was told the pump should draw from the bottom, (opposite side as the adjusting knob), so I changed it to the above pics. I just read the instructions that came with the mixing valve and they still seem to me to indicate I had it right the first time.



    Original;

  • Tracey
    Tracey Member Posts: 30
    Ok

    Here's a scan of the instructions for the mixing valve. On the right side it shows what I based mine off of originally. Which way is correct?

  • lchmb
    lchmb Member Posts: 2,997
    you were

    correct to start. My mistake in not seeing which way the valve worked. The picture I put up used Taco mixing valves. They blend out opposite of the handle.
  • Ironman
    Ironman Member Posts: 6,367
    Correct

    You've got it, Tracey. Of course, the mixing valve would not be necessary with reset.



    If you choose to use the mixing valve, it should pipe like this: Red dot to hot supply from boiler; Blue dot Tee'd into return line of boiler; Arrow to suction side of circulator.
    Bob Boan
    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
  • Slimpickins
    Slimpickins Member Posts: 323
    oops

    Tracey,



    I'm very sorry because I'm the one who originally said the mixing valve was installed incorrectly. I've installed Honeywell, Taco, Watts, Zurn, Cash Acme and Caleffi mixing valves and they all have the mix outlet opposite the dial. I should have said to double check the arrangement of the cold, hot and mix outlets instead of being a know-it-all. After 25 years in the biz, I'm still learning stuff.
  • Tracey
    Tracey Member Posts: 30
    No problem slim

    After 25 years they're still changing stuff is all! LOL Leave it to me to et the one oddball setup... Hahaha
  • Tracey
    Tracey Member Posts: 30
    Yea

    "Red dot to hot supply from boiler; Blue dot Tee'd into return line of boiler; Arrow to suction side of circulator" 



    Now why couldn't they put it in the directions like that? Simple and easy to understand!

    And they should put the colored dots on both sides ofthe valve too. I had to intall it with the dots facing the wall so it would be oriented the right way. Dots on both sides would've saved a little confusion.

    Got it the right way now though and learned a little along the way!



    I'll be looking into the outdoor reset thing a little closer now though. Sounds like a better option. Would it plumb into my system approximately the same as the mixing valve? And then have some sort of outdoor sensor?
  • Ironman
    Ironman Member Posts: 6,367
    That Would Depend ...

    How is the boiler presently piped beyond what we see in the pics? Is there another pump or other emitters? If this is the only thing connected, you'll need another circ and pri/sec piping to keep flow through the boiler when the mixing valve bypasses the boiler.



    Take a look a Tekmar's essay on variable speed injection for piping requirements.
    Bob Boan
    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
  • Tracey
    Tracey Member Posts: 30
    Boiler

    Well the boiler has 2 seperate systems as of right now. One "loop" goes to what you see in the pics in my shop, the other "loop" goes to a forced air heat exchanger in the house. Both loops have their own seperate Taco pump. So 3 pumps total including the zoning pump in the radiant system in the shop.



    I saved the Tekmar info so I can check it out tomorow or when I get a chance. (I don't have internet acess all the time here).
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