Temporary fix for oversized boiler.

JStar

Trying to kick around some ideas for a project coming up.



Customer has a 2-story home with one pipe steam. Wants to rent the upstairs. He's dead set on adding a separate forced air system on the second floor. Splitting gas usage. Doesn't have the funds to replace the steam boiler this year. Looking for a temporary solution to what will now be a 100% oversized boiler.



Ideas so far....



Derate the boiler with smaller orifices.

Install a vaporstat to keep the pressure as low as possible.

Put a hell of a lot of venting on the mains.



He obviously doesn't want to invest a lot of resources into changing too many parts of the system, because he's hoping to change out the boiler before next winter.

nicholas bonham-carter

Over-sized system

My view as a landlord would be to leave the system as is, but with upgrades to the efficiency to the whole system/envelope.

Maxing out the venting, and running at low pressure is a must whether you are trying to make major modifications or not.

I would suggest no such splitting up of the heating in this way-just to make the system as efficient as possible. --nbc

JStar

Yeah.

Mostly, he wants to split the gas bills. You could zone the steam between floors, but it still doesn't separate the fuel consumption. I also suggested adding another steam boiler with it's own main, but apparently he REALLY wants a furnace up in the attic. I haven't been there to meet with the guy yet, so maybe he just needs a little more information and some practical options.

will smith_4

Over sized

I wouldn't change orifices without the blessing of the manufacturer-in writing. It's AGA certified at this point, but if you change the orifices, it might not be anymore. That might sound paranoid, but in this day and age where there are more lawyers than anyone knows what to do with, I wouldn't open myself to any possible problems on that front. Mechanical problems are fun to solve (well okay, sometimes), but lawsuits are best left to other people.

I would see how it runs after you square away the venting, close off all the radiators on the unused floor except any keeping pipes protected (bath,kitchen). There should also be some leeway for you with the manifold gas pressure, though if you went to the minimum on that, you may only get a simmer off the boiler

JStar

RE

We are going to contact the manufacturer fist about derating the boiler. I do not want that responsibility on my shoulders for just the reasons you mentioned.



I think, too, that we will just condemn the second floor radiators, and then wait for a problem to pop up. I would just like to have the solutions stated upfront so that we don't get stuck making repairs for free.

Jamie Hall

Got to admit...

That if your client there is really dead set on this, I'd walk away from it.  He isn't going to be a happy camper, and it's going to be you he'll yell at.



And yes, I know work is hard to come by these days.  But is it that hard to get?

JStar

RE

It's not that we're desperate....we would like to have a solution to this job, so that we can make him happy in the future. We can't force anybody to do things a certain way. We can only educate them on the options.

kcopp

If he is that.....

hell bent then You may want to just put a couple Rinnai space heaters in the apartments. Ditch the steam altogether then give the radiators a proper home where they will be appreciated.

thfurnitureguy_4

Apartments are tough

I just went through the same thing in an old steam building. The tenants can't see the justification for rent including heat. They compair rent and will pay twice as much for base board electric, on their electric bill, and feel like they are better off. We shut off 4 apartments on a radically oversized boiler. The more radiation you cut out the more you save. The thing cycles on pressure but the usage is down. We Cut back the nozzle 25% and save even more.

Dave in QCA

My tenants figure it out...

I have a building with 7 apartments.  Steam heat is included in the price of the rent.  I make sure to explain to the tenant how much of the rent is actually the cost of heat.  The remainder is actually the rent for comparisons to places where they would pay their own heat bill.  They don't have a problem understanding it.  I always make sure in my advertisements to state that heat is free.