Boiler decisions, unsure of what brand

Pammett

Good evening folks



Im a G2, OBT 3 and WETT certified technician and started 11 years ago in the hydronics side of the trade and unfortunately couldn't seem to find enough companies in the area that work on systems. I ventured into forced warm air and for the past 5 years been into the hearth side of business. I'm so far out of the loop on radiant infloor and the best boilers on the market and I've a big decision to make within the next few day i could use a unbias opinion which i can find from anyone.



I've took a entire year off and from ground up build a new log house. I poured a "slab" (with 4' frost walls) and had heat calculations and a complete infloor design created by a company in Regina B.C called Uponor. I did the infloor to there specs and purchased a Watts Radiant ss Manifold for the infloor. Now here's my headache.



What boiler should i get? I've been looking at the "Weil Mclain Ultra" although I've read a few horror stories on the noisy ventilation and aluminum heat exchangers needing a balanced PH maintained (I'm on a well) I'm not really sure what to think. I've been on this website for 6 hours reading and reviewing and will be here for alot longer since there is so much input to review. With the infloor system i also want a indirect water heater.

Any ideas???

Alan (California Radiant) Forbes

Questions

So, what is your heat loss in BTU's?



Propane, oil or gas?



As far as DHW, how many bathrooms do you have and how many occupants do you expect.

Pammett

Few answers, need anything else for info let me know please

Heat loss is 59,487 btus, I'm going to go with a Propane system. There are 4 full time occupants living in house and i've installed a Bis tradition wood Zero for added ascetics and to cut propane cost. Were located in South Ontario also.

Looked at Viessman, Vitodens, Prestige, Knights, Buderus boilers online tonight .Once i hear from a few people on here with there opinions ill see where to go i guess. Think ill call all the suppliers around here tomorrow and figure out what brands I've access to.



Then i think I'll see if i can get the schematics drawn by a designer who understands todays technical issues and is up to date on the newest technology. I dont know of anyone in Ontario area that does designing but ill be calling around tomorrow. Anything Hearth, central systems im pretty familiar with at this time but Im a bit concerned with my lack of current knowledge on hydronics and whats new on the market.

Jean-David Beyer

Weil McLain Ultra boilers.

I am not a professional, so bear that in mind.



I have a W-M Ultra 3 80,000 BTU/hr model boiler. I cannot tell you what the best boiler is because I have experience only with the one I have. It seems to be a good boiler.



I notice no noise with this boiler. It is certainly much much quieter than my old GE oil-fired boiler with a Beckett oil burner in it. Mine was installed with 3-inch PVC for air intake and exhaust venting. This makes no sound at all. There is a variable speed blower in the boiler that sucks in the cold air, mixes it with the gas, blows it into the combustion chamber (fire side of the heat exchanger) and the left-over pressure forces the combustion products out the exhaust vent. It is extremely quiet (quieter than the Taco 007-IFC circulators that are also very quiet). The easiest way to tell the burner is running (other than looking at the indications on the control panel) is to gently touch the cabinet and feel the vibration.



As far as the pH of the boiler water and the aluminum heat exchanger, I have had no problems with it, but I have had the boiler only since mid-May 2009. I run it all year because it drives the indirect hot water heater. It has gone through two entire winters here in New Jersey. The installation manual says that the water should have a pH between 7.0 and 8.5, chlorine less than 200 ppm, and hardness less than 7 grains. If my water company is to believed, the pH is between pH 7.2 and 7.6, the chlorine is 2 ppm, and the hardness is 6.

This is all in their instalaltion manual available on their web site.



Others here have remarked that in choosing the boiler, it is far more important what contractor you get to provide and install the boiler than the differences between on boiler and the next. I assume this applys separately for mod-cons, and conventional boilers because where it is appropriate to use a mod-con, a mod-con will be more efficient than a conventional boiler.

Mark Eatherton

To echo what JD said...

The equipment, although an important decision, is not as import as the installing contractor. You are going to have to live with the installing contractor for the rest of your life, because this equipment REQUIRES annual service/cleaning.



The best equipment in the world (Viessmann) is useless if improperly installed.



You have a lot of intensive homework ahead.



Ask for references. Follow up on those references, and actually go out to take a look at the quality of work performed. Ask the H.O. how satisfied they are with the system. Have they had any "issues"? If so, how were they handled? Contact their suppliers and see how their credit is. The last thing you need is a lien filed on your home/business.



As for equipment, personally, I'd avoid anything aluminum. Too many issues associated with its operation and longevity.



At present, I like Lochinvar's wall hung boiler with the down fired heat exchanger the best. Their controls are far and away better than any of the others that I have had the opportunity to work with.



As for a competent designer, contact Rob Brown with North East Radiant Technology. His work is impeccable, and his drawings are easily read and understood by anyone who is worth their salt in the hydronic business.



Coming here shows you are an intelligent consumer, and I personally like intelligent consumers. It shows they have a vested interest in what they are doing. Stick around and learn something. You won't regret it. Visit the book store here and become even more educated. There are some homeowners here, who know more about steam and hydronic heating systems than most of their area contractors...



Welcome to The Wall. the ORIGINAL Wall...



ME

Pammett

Thanks mark

North East Radiant Technology, Ill be sending them a set of plans and my heat calculations and getting them to do a piping diagram, and maybe even a electrical schematic. I dont want to hire a contractor. Im a contractor in the heating trade just not familiar with the newest greatest technology out there. Im assuming hydronics have excelled since i dealt with them 8 years ago....... especially if there anything like the changes we've seen in Hearth products, and central systems. I'll plumb it wire it, drill holes and vent it, do service and babysit the system till ive all the bugs worked out. Im not stupid in workings of a hydronic system and i do repair them, im just not as smart as the "professionals", like the folks here. I understand there are plenty of customers that get taken for rides by there local heating contractors. If i get a boiler call i refer them to a company in our area named "Hamilton smith". I get a lot of referrals from others companies for hearth products since that where ive been and have made a name for myself.

Paul Pollets

LP ModCon

The Viessmann Vitodens WB2B 200 does not require a conversion kit for propane. The Lambda gas valve automatically detects the fuel source and modulates accordingly. The schematics provided by Viessmann are easy to follow and the wiring harness is truly "plug and play". Take a field trip to Langley and see the equipment.

Alan (California Radiant) Forbes

Boilers

After installing many Munchkin and Viessmann boilers for radiant heating applications, I have settled on the Prestige Solo line as my go-to boiler.  They are easy to install and work flawlessly. 



My favorite indirect is a Viessmann Vitocell 300, followed by the Smart series of indirects.  They are at opposite ends of the price spectrum.  And I'll go so far as to say that I am not a fan of HTP Superstor - I've had and heard of too many leakers.





And I agree with what Mark said about the importance of the heating contractor and his selection of equipment.

Mark Eatherton

I need to read s l o w e r . . . .

and absorb BETTER...



Rob and company are good people to deal with and they can design a system around whatever boiler you chose.



Money well spent in my opinion.



ME

Pammett

NTI trinity

Found a NTI trinity ti-100 that seems to be a nice product with 636 venting requirements, with a indirect Bock Sidekick 40 sk , I' ve inquired about a Viessmann , and a Budarus system but wont hear back until monday on those products..



Popular consensus seems to be Viessmann, or Budarus from a lot of peeps and hopefully there priced right, if i can't afford them at this time then ill defiantly get them in the future once the economy picks back up, but up here in Canada is darn slow in this trade atm.



Thanks all of those that voiced a opinion, i appreciate it



Hopefully ill be installing a new system next weekend!

Ironman

Viessmann, Buderus, Knight, Triangle Tube (Prestige)

Are all excellent boilers and would be the ones recommended by most of the guys here on the wall. The new ECR/Utica/Dunkirk 96 & 97% boilers are also a very good product (see the "Product of the Month" below).



I don't know much about the Trinity, but if you'll search "The Wall" I believe there's a good deal of input. I think there may be some issue of heat exchanger distortion, but do a search to confirm that.



Again, a competent, reliable contractor is the most important factor in the process and choosing a product that he's familiar with will be prudent.

CMadatMe

Control

What are you looking for as far as control goes? Want to keep it simple and it's a one temp job then Vitodens 100. Need multiple water temps and looking for indoor feedback Vitodens 200 with a Viessmann plug and play mixing valve. Would also look at using Vitotrols.