weird problem

bruce_21

New Weil WGO-4 with 4 zones of baseboard and boilermate on priority. Taco SR-506, old mercury thermostats. HO says the radiators get hot by themselves. Stats are set at 55 Whenever I go there to troubleshoot, the pumps are off and pipes cool even with the boilermate pump running so the flow controls must be working OK. Got me stumped. Any ideas are much appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Alan (California Radiant) Forbes

New Boiler

What else changed when the new boiler was installed?  Is that when the Boilermate went in?  What changed on the heating side?

bruce_21

Boilermate was there

We changed out several old one zone relays for the Taco SR-506 so there could be hot water priority.

Alan (California Radiant) Forbes

It sounds

as though the phantom flow only occurs when one or more heating zones are calling for heat?



What is the make and model of the heating circulator?  What make zone valves are you using?  The reason I'm asking is that if you have a high head pump, it could be forcing the zone valves to open.  Just a guess at this point.

bruce_21

Not zone valves, separate 007 pumps

for each zone and SR-506 relay and flow control valves all pumping away from the boiler

Jean-David Beyer

IFC check valves.

Are those Taco 007 circulators the IFC model? They reduce ghost flow. If the pipes are much larger than 1/2 inch, it may be necessary to employ Flow Check valves on the returns.

Charlie from wmass

Check the wiring

I have seen zone controls wired where the electrician (apprentice actually) wired the whites all together then just used separate reds to each zone. I have also seen the wires twisted so the wrong zone came on for a given thermostat.

bruce_21

regular non IFC 007's

with cast iron body weighted flow control valves 6" above the pumps with 3/4" copper baseboard loops. The piping, at least when I've been there, has been cool past the flow controls and too hot to touch on the boiler manifold side.

bruce_21

can the old mercury stats

be a problem? What should the anticipator setting be for the Taco SR-506? I just connected the wires to the new SR-506, maybe the anticipators need adjustment?

Ironman

Heat Anticipators...

Should be set at .2 to .4. The anticipator controls the cycle rate and should be set to match the current draw through the thermostat. The Taco relays draw .18, so start at.2 and if the cycle is too short, move the anticipator higher towards .4 for a longer cycle.



I don't see how the thermostats could cause your problem, assuming that everything is wired correctly.



Can you post some pics of the near boiler piping and Taco panel wiring?

Alan (California Radiant) Forbes

Are you saying

that you didn't change any of the pumps or flo-checks ("cast iron body weighted flow control valves 6" above the pumps")????  The only thing you did was replace the boiler and perhaps some near-boiler piping and replace the one-zone relays with the SR506?



I'd be pissed.  That's just weird Karma.

bruce_21

new pumps

we cleaned up the piping and replaced all the zone pumps except the one on the boilermate and reused the existing flow control valves.

There had been a flood caused by a power surge that fried the control to a bosch clothes washer, we did some R & R of toilets, sinks and replaced a lot of the baseboard rads because the ruined hardwood floors had to come out and new wood ones installed. The old boiler was loaded with soot and might have been saved but the insurance paid for a new one. There had been several remodels over the years and the near boiler piping was confusing from things just being added on top of existing things. The zones weren't labeled very well and I spent a while getting things straightened out and everything heating correctly. There are still some pipes and wires that just go into the walls of the boiler room never to be seen again, but all the rads heat properly when their stats call.

Mark Eatherton

Need pictures and drawings...

otherwise, we are all conjecting :-)



I had a job like this once, where during the Summer, when the DHW heater was done calling for heat, the residual heat left in the boiler would rise up and be released through convectors that were in close proximity to the boilers location. We had SWING checks in place, but they could NOT stop GRAVITY flow. We replaced them with SPRING checks, and the problems went away.



The check valves that are integral to all of these newer pumps are NOT intended to stop forward thermo siphoning. They are intended to stop REVERSE flow, as created by another pump, through THAT pump. The spring assembly is just too weak to stop any forward flow potential, wether its mechanically induced, or gravity induced.



A picture or drawing is worth a thousand words....



ME