Questions regarding new layout

MNPLUMBER

I have a few questions regarding this layout and the proper way to install the piping. Basically I plan to have three zones using zone valves as pictured. One for the main floor, second for the basement and third for the upstairs.

The upstairs I want to run 1/2" pex from a manifold to three panel type radiators.



The part I'm having trouble is with the run to the kitchen. I want to have it on the loop for the first floor but because of piping access and restrictions I can't get the loop over there. I will have to loop 1/2" pex to the panel radiator in the kitchen off of the first floor zone. The question I have is what is the proper way to pipe this to the kitchen and still make sure I get good flow. 

Without using a restrictor tee or using a separate  zone valve is there a way to get the proper flow to the kitchen coming off the first floor loop? Thanks.

I forgot to put on the diagram that the kitchen is just one 5000 BTUH panel.











<img src="http://i365.photobucket.com/albums/oo95/ironrangehunter/boilerpiping.jpg" alt="" />

EricAune

layout

The piping arrangement, as it is drawn now, will not allow for any flow through the kitchen.  If you are able to connect the tubing from the kitchen to the baseboard piping, why not put your zone valves there?  One for the main level and one for the kitchen.  The return from the kitchen will have to be tied in after the main level BB.

MNPLUMBER

I could

I want to use a panel radiator in the kitchen because a baseboard won't fit. I was told by more than one person that I couldn't run a panel radiator off the same loop along with fin tube, too much water in the panel radiator, is that correct?

 If I can then I'll just extend the first floor fin tube loop to pick up the kitchen.  I don't want to make it a separate zone, I want the kitchen on the same zone as the first floor using the same t-stat.

Trying to mix a panel radiator with a loop of fin tube  and having it run off one zone and one t-stat is basically what I'm trying to do.

MNPLUMBER

Is it possible

I think I see what you're saying now. How about this, can I have two zone valves that work off one single t-stat? 

MNPLUMBER

Try this?

How about like this? Have a separate zone controlled by it's own zone valve for the kitchen. The question I have now is can I run the two zone valves (kitchen & First floor) off one T-stat,  I want them to work together. Thanks

Charlie from wmass

In the first drawing

were you going to use monoflow tees? That would cause the water to flow to the panel radiator.

MNPLUMBER

That was my first intention

to use a monoflow diverter tee in the loop  but thought it may restrict my flow to the rest of the fin tubes on the loop. What do you think?

Maybe this would work;  the loop for the main floor only needs to be 3/4" piping based on the length of the run and BTUH. I think I could pipe 1" to the point of the diverter tee, use a 1x3/4x3/4 diverter tee and still have my 3/4" flow to the loop while still supplying the kitchen panel. Would save me the cost of another zone valve etc.

Charlie from wmass

You can not reduce the monoflow line

the flow before the tees must equal that after the tees. How far is it from the tees to the tubing? feet, yards? You may want to get a bit of a consultation from Eric. He is top notch with this stuff and close by if you need a man on the ground. If it were me and it were just a few feet to the radiator I would use a monoflow tee arrangement and make darn sure I did accurate heat loss for the kitchen and the rest of the zone.

MNPLUMBER

Yes now I remember that

Regarding the flow, the flow will equal out on the other side. I've read so much in the last few weeks, it's going to take a while get it all to sink in. The run would be about 18 feet one way, and then back so a total of 36'. Sounds like it may be too far? Well getting back to the other route like Eric said use two zone valves,  still have the question can I use one T-stat controlling both zone valves to work together?

Thanks.

Ironman

I Would Make Certain...

That your Tee's are spaced farther apart than the width of the panel rad: the compression fittings and internal tubing of the panel rad offer more resistance (head) than baseboard. You may want to use two mono-flow Tee's like you would when the rad is below the main.

Ironman

Disregard My Last Post

I was Typing my post before your last one went up. Your run-outs  to the rad are too long for mono-flow piping. Better off using two zone valves, anyway.

MNPLUMBER

Yea that's what I was afraid of

Do you know if I can run both zone valves from one T-stat to work in conjunction,  I can't seem to find the answer in any of my books. Maybe it's a common thing I don't know.

Charlie from wmass

Why two zone valves?

Why not go old school and pipe it as a split loop? If you use two zone valves add the extra Tstat. The customers will thank you.

MNPLUMBER

My head hurts ;-)

I don't know why I would need any zone valves at all. In the beginning this was going to be no zone valves,  wanted the entire system to run at the same time fluctuating off the main level T-stat.  I've seen many boilers set up just as my picture above with no zone valves or extra pumps. Would it work? Most likely would.

Saw one yesterday all copper, supply came up and branched eight 1/2" copper lines manifold style out,  returned with eight 1/2" copper lines. One packaged pump W/M cast iron boiler. Works great!

One thing I am learning is there isn't just one way to do this. Seems it's the opinion of the installer.  It will be a few months before I get started on my first project, in the mean time I'm still learning.