Purchasing home with 35+ year old Pasemaker boiler

nowwhatnapster

Hello all, While researching boilers I just stumbled upon this site and there seems to be wealth of intelligence. So I figured I;d pick your brains...



I am a first time home buyer who recently had a home inspection performed on a house I plan to purchase. Turns out the furnace is ancient. According to standard oil its a Pasemaker brand oil-fired boiler about 35+ years old. Venting into a brick chimney with no clean-out box. So they couldn't inspect it to see if it was lined. (this is just a general home inspector) Possible asbestos on the furnace itself. Hot water heater is Ford brand age of 21 years.



I want to replace both units before I move into the house, but there are a lot of options available and I'm trying to make sense of it all.



There is natural gas line in the street, but the house is not hooked up to it. They also just installed a brand new oil tank inside the house. So hooking up to the city gas line seems a bit dumb and expensive. That being said, I guess I'm in the market for an oil fired boiler.



I learned that they make, or used to make, boilers that vent through PVC pipe or CPVC something like that. I was interested in those because there is a high chance the chimney flue will need to be lined because I want a high-eff boiler. I guess lining a chimney is not that expensive, however, the idea of being able to remove the chimney completely would greatly improve the layout of the house. I am very interested in the "direct vent?" options because of this, in particular the PVC pipe ones.



I guess I am looking for input from people who have experience in this field. Costs are also a concern as this house is definitely a "fixer-upper". Boilers last awhile so I gotta get it right on the first try.



*edit*

I forgot to mention that the house uses hot-water cast iron radiators with the exception of the dining room and bathroom which use the aluminum fin baseboard heaters (thinking about removing those and putting in cast iron to keep heating consistent)

Ironman

Pasemaker ready for a Pacemaker?

It sounds like your boiler is at or near the end of its life expectancy. And, installing a new one would certainly save energy.



I don't know of any oil-fired boilers that vent with pvc pipe. If someone does, then feel free to correct me. The Buderus GB125BE is a condensing oil boiler that vents with an approved plastic vent system and has a special burner that burns with a blue flame due to its high combustion efficiency. Their GB125E is a non-condensing version and can be direct vented with their kit. Their standard G115 and G215 models can also be direct vented. This is true for several manufacturers; most have a direct vent model.



With that said, I would not consider a standard pin boiler. They are virtually impossible to clean properly and will use more fuel. I would look for a three pass design like the Buderus or Viessman.



Since you have gas available, that would be my first choice if the gas co. will connect you for a reasonable cost. Natural gas is cheaper to operate than oil in any market that I know of. And with a gas-fired mod/con, you could vent with pvc (except Viessman)

nowwhatnapster

Natural Gas

After reading your post I went ahead and contact the gas company. I told them I was interested in hooking up to the line in the street, they asked some questions about the square footage of the house and what appliances I would be hooking up. I told them stove, boiler, and possibly dryer (there is no dryer and there are no hookups for a dryer.



They said they would hook us up for free... I guess I'll believe that. I would still have to pay a plumber to pipe the gas to the stove/boiler/dryer. We do have a family friend who is a plumber, but I'm not sure how much of a deal he will cut for us.



So your thinking gas is the way to go? even though there is a brand new 275gal oil tank (plus an old tank sitting right next to it)? Guess I should try selling that.

Steamhead

Depends

if "They said they would hook us up for free.." and actually do this, you're lucky. The gas company here charges big bucks to install gas piping from the street to the house. Look for the "catch", likely there is one.



Then compare the actual cost per BTU of oil vs. gas in your area. Be sure to include all the little taxes and fees that appear in very small print on the bill, to keep you from noticing them. A gallon of #2 oil contains 139,500 BTUs or so, a cubic foot of gas can contain anywhere from 950-1150 BTUs. If the gas is billed in therms, a therm is 100,000 BTU.



Some boilers can be fired with either fuel, giving you more flexibility. The Solaia line is one of these- it's a three-pass low-mass cast-iron boiler. Here are some pics of Solaias in both oil and gas trim.

traderfjp

Forget Oil

Sell the tank and you'll have more room in your basement.  Natural gas is cheaper and its price is more stable than oil.  I would love to have your option.  I'm 500 feet from a gas main and it would cost 30k to hook me up.  I have several friends who heat with NG and I can't believe how low their bills are.

traderfjp

Forget Oil

nowwhatnapster

Toss up

It seems like a bit of a toss up in regards to gas vs oil prices. Granted gas is cheaper right now. I am looking into the hidden costs of hooking up to natural gas. Reading around I saw someone mention some triple and double digit permits may be required to get hooked up. I'll have to research this more.



One important topic I need to bring up is the age of the house (circa 1920) it has minimal insulation and a 1300sq ft of heated space. I'm estimating it will be at least 1 maybe two winters before i get the insulation up to par. and even longer to get all the single pane windows updated.



That being said, the BTU's required to heat the home should decrease significantly as I insulate. So I need to consider this in the purchase of my boiler. I will probably have to buy something over-sized that can throttle itself back down the road. Also, the majority of the house is cast iron radiator, i would assume the radiators themselves will eventually be over sized for the rooms they are heating... I'm not quite sure how that plays into the mix, but I know you size the radiators for the room.



Another thought, the inspector mentioned the current pasemaker furnace may contain asbestos, Do you think that will add significantly to the removal cost?

TonyS

Gas hookup free

In our area, Reading, Allentown 98% of the gas hookups are free. This is because they are now allowed to take a full writeoff up to 3500.00 dollars. If the hookup exceeds that amount, they split it with the homeowner. Usually it doesn't exceed unless you have a couple of street cuts and maybe a terrace to dig.

Now that they have found basically unlimited natural gas in the Marcellus shale and they haven't found a way to economically liquify it (although the Germans are feverishly working on it) So they can steal it from under our feet and sell it to the highest bidder over seas.  Go with the gas, It clean its domestically produced and btu wise it is the least expensive fuel out there.

Jean-David Beyer

Permit cost for gas hookup.

In 2009, I had gas hooked up to my house. The gas company did it for free, but the town in Monmouth County, NJ, charged $150 for the permit to open the street to connect to the gas main. That was double digit, but a tiny part of the cost of replacing the oil boiler with a mod-con gas one, making two zones instead of one, etc. The Etc. is what got me: remediation of oil leak from underground tank. Even the cost of the boiler, labor, and profit were small compared with that.

BobC

Gas is cheaper but don't neglect easy heat saving steps.

In my area (Boston) the total cost of natural gas is about $2.73 for the equivalent of a gallon of oil, note that heating season gas rates are much higher in this area. I divided my gas bill by the number of therms so all taxes and customer charges are included. It costs about 70 cents more per gallon for the oil than for the equivalent natural gas. I suspect gas is going to be cheaper than oil for the forseeable future so if a boiler has to be replaced, natural gas is the best option assuming they will run the pipe to the house for free.



With an old house without much insulation your first job is to find and plug all the air infiltration paths because that is probably the highest heat loss. Next would be putting a foot of insulation in the attic. Those two should account for the lions share of heat loss in the winter, as long as you have reasonably tight storms and take steps to seal the wood windows (Mortite rope caulk) new windows will help but they are not going to make a huge difference in the bill.



Bob