Replace Forced Air Heat with Hot Water Baseboard Heat

Ken1

Hi Folks,



Continuing on a previous post I put up -



I currently have an older gas furnace and a forced air heating system with one zone on my first and second floors in my late 1800s house in Boston. My heating bill is huge and my family is relative cold in the house. I've gotten three estimates for new furnaces. I would also like to get heat to my third floor finished attic (currently unheated) and unfinished basement where I will be building a music rehearsal room in the future.



Of the three estimates, one private plumber/hvac person suggested that I would never truly be happy with the forced air system in my house, it would only be somewhat effective to zone, and that I wouldn't be able to heat to my third floor with it. He recommended scrapping the existing system and putting in a forced hot water system with baseboards. While this would be more expensive, he said that longterm it would pay off with the ability to zone, bring heat to my third floor and basement (when ready to do that), and most importantly that we'd be warmer, more comfortable and happier with the heat. Here's the kicker, as he is an independent plumber/hvac person, versus the other places that gave me estimates, which are very big companies, his price for this whole job (including baseboards, piping, heat to the third floor, etc.) was only about $4000 more that what the other companies wanted to just to upgrade my furnace and move it to a different spot in my basement (so I can build my practice room!). Also, for another $1500 we can include the heating of water for the whole house with this system.



My concerns are:

1) Will I really be more comfortable, warmer and happier with the hot water/baseboard system?

2) Will my bills really be the same or lower than with a high efficiency forced hot air system?

3) Will the baseboards be ugly in my beautiful old Victorian home?

4) Will the baseboards make it so we have much more limited use of furniture, or do we just have to move our couch a few inches from the wall?

5) Should I worry about the invasiveness of putting in the piping and baseboards (the plumber already scoped it out and said he knows where everything can run)?

6) Is this a good move in general/overall?



Any other thoughts are welcome!



Incidentally, the plumber/hvac guy who recommended this is licensed/insured and has 20 years experience in the military doing heating systems plus a number of years running his own business. He offered me the same warranties on his work as the big companies, and he is the only person who encouraged me to think long-term (not to mention he can offer much better rates as he has less overhead).



Thanks!!!



Kenny

David Sutton_6

Heres a thought....

 talk to the plumbing/heating guy about this ..



Hydro coils... a warm air furnace supplied by a boiler, keep the air/ac for the main add baseboard for the attic and celler and do the inderect for hot water ! all needs meet and one fire sourse.... 



With the lower heat exchange temps the air wont get sooo dry, prperly sized will heat the main house real nice and toasty, while filling your goals for the rest of the house

Jamie Hall

If you want one man's opinion...

and keep in mind that it is, in fact, just one man's opinion, I think that yes, you will be happier in the long run with hot water baseboard heat.  And I like the sound of your contractor.



With regard to specific questions -- and again, this is just on man's opinion:

1.  More comfortable, surely.  Warmer is hard to say -- but it is likely that your heat will be more even (as well as more easily regulated!).  Depends a little on what you set the thermostat at!  Happier?  I dare say you will be -- but who am I to say?!

2.  I would hesitate to forecast bills.  However, in general hot water is more efficient, when all the losses are factored in, than anything else.

3.  Not necessarily.  However, you should definetly take some thought as to where they are located, and particularly what kind of enclosures they have.  If yours is like many Victorians, with rather plain baseboards, by the time you get done you'll hardly notice them.

4.  No.  You may find that you have to move things out from the wall a little to clear the legs -- particularly true of things like sideboards and cabinets -- but most furniture is not a problem.  Again, if you check the heat loss of each room carefully, and size the baseboards accordingly, you will probably find that not all the wall footage is covered, and that there will be places for some of the bigger oddments.  There is no need to pull the furniture out, though, for circulation in most cases.

5.  Haven't seen the place, so I wouldn't care to say.  But if your contractor thinks it can be done without a lot of hassle, he's probably right.  Particularly since in really odd spots things like PEX can be used, and that stuff can get into the strangest places...

6.  I'd say yes, but that's just my opinion.



You mention a practice room.  Not sure what you practice -- but most musical instruments, if that's your thing, are much happier with either hot water or steam than they are with forced air.



Hope this helps some...

icesailor

FHW-FWA & Baseboard:

Both ideas and suggestions given are very good.

Without going into a long history of a job, I did this.

They had a large WA oil furnace that heated the house well. Too hot in areas and OK in others. The HX was going. The house is a pre-1850 two story antique. An addition was put on the back and heat had been run off an oil fired water heater. It was all baseboard in the addition. A number of years ago, I replaced the oil fired water heater with a boiler and a 80 gallon storage tank run off the tank-less. It worked well for years.

A few years ago, when the HX was going, the owner wanted AC. I told him that I could replace the old boiler with a new boiler (W-M WTGO-5) and he could put an air handler in the cellar and one in the attic and he could heat and cool the second floor from the attic. The old WA ducting could be replaced as needed and insulated for AC.

A clever designer can do a lot with what you want to do.

You could also consider Mini-Splits for AC. They work really great in old houses

The beauty of hydronic air handlers is that you only need to get hot water to the units. I find that a big job broken up into smaller units can often be done where a big job, where finances become an issue, will be put off and never done. For example, if you have gas, you can put in a nice Mod/Con boiler, big enough to do all you want. Heat and DHW. You can put an indirect by the new boiler to get your DHW.  You can put in an air handler in place of the old WA furnace and do the whole house. Later, you can put an air handler in the attic somehow and heat the second floor. Now, you have two zones of heat.  You can remove old duct work and replace with insulated duct. You can add the AC as you wish. You can run HW lines to baseboard.

You can do anything you want, as you want and as you can afford it. You can do it all or a little at a time. It's your choice. That's how I do things.

Ken1

Air Handler or Baseboards

Thanks for the quick and thoughtful responses!



I have given some thought to the air handler and then putting baseboards on the third floor and basement, and my plumber/hvac guy originally suggested that as a possibility. However, he later suggested it would be better to just go all baseboard. One reason for this was that he said that while some newer forced air systems work very well, mine was an afterthought in the house and would never work very well (not to mention the zoning issues). I know the benefit of keeping the vents for adding central A/C, but after giving this some thought I think we'd be better just doing mini duct systems in the future if we decide to add a/c. I don't think price is a huge issue as he is giving me a very good price on the baseboard system, and as the air handler itself would add an extra cost , I don't think it would be a huge amount cheaper.



Do you see other benefits for going the air handler route for the first and second floors, and baseboards on the third and basement?



One extra benefit of getting rid of the air ducts altogether is that I will get back about a foot of basement height and as I plan on building a soundproof music room, this would be helpful both for room height (though I do have very high ceilings in the basement and could do it regardless), and the air ducts transmit sound all around the house like crazy - not such a big deal in general, but when it comes to playing music, it's a different story!



Thanks!

Ken1

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