Banging and high water

Volldampf

Good morning,



The second morning in a row I have a lot of banging coming from the pipes in my single-pipe steam system. It happens for a while when we first start the heat in the morning after having it turned down overnight. Then it stops and the system appears to work fine.



It started the morning after I flushed the water-feeder/cutoff thing. I was in the basement to check for any puddles from the snowmelt and while down there I thought it was time to do the flushing again, so I did that. When I did, I noticed some water had been dripping from the gauge glass. The water was at the usual level at that time and it was its usual color, a bit blurry, brownish. Everything appeared normal except for the little drip.



Yesterday, the banging stopped after a while and I thought well, let's see what happens tomorrow.



Fast forward to today, banging again so I turn the heat off and go downstairs to find that now the gauge glass is full with water to the top (normally it has perhaps 1/3 of water in the glass) and it's much dirtier than usual.



I have only just started to learn about the system and have so far only progressed to the "reading 'We Got Steam Heat'" stage.



I'd be grateful for any advice or suggestions. Is this something within a clueless homeowner's abilities or is it already time to pick up the phone?



Thanks!

Matt

Rod

Excess Water in the Boiler.

Hi- The additional water has to come from somewhere. Two possibilities are an automatic water feeder and the other is a hot water coil. The next question would be do you have a automatic water feeder and or a hot water coil? (Hot water coil heats water for your hot water taps)   If you have an automatic water feeder there should be a shut off valve. Turn that off and drain the excess water back to the proper level. If the flooding stops then the automatic water feeder has a bad valve or needs to be readjusted. If the flooding continues hen you have leaking hot water coil.  Both are jobs that should probably be handled by a pro if you are new to steam.

There is another possibility and that is your condensate is slow to return to the boiler which is usually due to a plugged wet return line, If you have an automatic water feeder it is adding extra water to make up for the condensate slow return,

You can detect this by watching your boiler in operation and seeing if the waterline drops and the automatic feeder adds new water, Has your wet return line been cleaned lately?

Again this is something a pro could handle best. If the return line is clogged it is sometimes easier /better to just replace the return line. As this is a non steam line copper is acceptable for doing the replacement. The "banging" is most probably caused by the excess water.

- Rod

Volldampf

Drained out some water

Hello Rod,  thank you very much for your fast response.



Our steam boiler also provides the hot water for the house and the water feeder is the automatic kind, it looks just like a McDonnell & Miller model pictured in the 'We Got Steam Heat" book.



I closed what I guessed was the feed valve for that (there was a valve on each side going to the same thing) and drained out water to about what I think the normal level was. I marked that level.



Then I opened the valve again. No water was added.



Next, I turned up the thermostat and had the heat turn on. The water in the gauge glass is bouncing around a bit, I'd say maybe +/- a 1/4 inch around my mark.



So far, no banging in the pipes and our radiators sound much less gurgly than they did this morning. I turned the heat up a bit more just now and watch how things go.



Thanks again! What a great resource this site is!

Matt



Edit: with regards to the wet return line, I am nearly certain that it has not been cleaned in a long time. I have neglected to take care of these things and have to check in with my service company if  they do that. I suspect they may just maintain the oil burner and related things and not the more plumbing type of things of the boiler and heating system. As we all know, oil and water do not mix.

Jamie Hall

Is there...

a bypass valve around the automatic feeder for manual feeding?  There often is.  Did you open that at some point?  My bet is going to be that either the automatic feeder valve or a bypass valve is leaking, since the problem started just after you flushed the automatic feeder/LWCO.



The water in the gauge glass being dirtier than usual could be from water feeding into the boiler, and stirring things up -- which again points to the automatic feeder or its bypass.

Rod

Possibilities

Hi Matt- Jamie made a good point about the cause of the dirty water so the bypass valve is another possibility.

Other items- You can find the proper height of waterline for your boiler in the installation instructions. It is usually measured from the floor and with the burner off. I don't know if you have run across this in "We Got Steam Heat" yet but when fresh water is added to a boiler it is very important to bring the new water to a boil as this drives off excess dissolved oxygen which can be very corrosive to your boiler and shorten its life.

- Rod

Volldampf

Massed Pipes

Hello Jamie, thank you for your post.



The boiler has a - to me - confusing labyrinth of about 3 zillion pipes and valves going into every which direction.



But it just so happens that the *one valve* that is labeled is that manual feeding valve. And I have not opened or changed it. So perhaps that points more to that automatic feeder then.



I continue to watch the water level in the gauge glass (water is much clearer now) and it has risen a little bit above my mark so far. I wonder if it will over time return to the high level of this morning. I also noticed a very small crack in the glass when I took a real close look, so that must be the source of that little drip.



This whole system has so many things that need looking at, I was just hoping it could wait until heating season is over.

Volldampf

I wish I knew

Hello Rod,



Yes, I read about the issue with the addition of fresh water to the system and the oxygen causing corrosion. So, just to ask if I understood it right, making sure the heat runs after water is added will take care of this sufficiently? Or is there more to it?



I am not sure if I have the right manual for my boiler, it is a Peerless JOT-35-W-S, according to the attached plate. I contacted Peerless some time ago about it and they responded that while they don't have records going that far back, this boiler should have been manufactured about 1973-74.



Barely broken in!



They attached a scanned manual for their JO-TW and JOT-TW boilers to the response and I am looking through that. But the boilers documented there are JOT-TW075, 100, 125 and upwards up to 300. Nothing with 35 in its model number. If I find information about the water fill level for any of the documented boilers in that manual, would it even allow me to apply that my boiler?



Thanks for the help!

Matt

Rod

Boiler Waterline

Hi Matt-  The JOT boilers in the manual have probably the same waterline as your JOT boiler. Generally other models of the JOT type would use the same boiler sections and have the same waterline. (Typical residential heating boilers (steam & water) are made of multiple sections bolted together like slices of bread)  Different JOT models, bigger or smaller, just have more or less sections.  See if the drawings in the manual have any waterline reference. The design waterline is usually about 1 /2 way up the glass so if any measurements you find in the manuals are close to that, use them.

Excess oxygen- Just heat the new water to the boiler where it makes steam . It doesn't have to then boil for a long period of time.

- Rod

Volldampf

Waterline set and holding steady

I found the waterline in the manual for the other JOT boilers and filled mine to the same level, 32 1/4". I had to add perhaps an inch of water.



Had the boiler run for a while to boil the water and so far it is holding steady. Other than a bit of jumping around when it's actually heating. But it settles always back down right at the mark. We'll see how this looks tomorrow morning.



The water in the gauge glass is also much cleaner again now.



Could the overfilling have been caused by dirt in the system that was stirred up from my recent flushing of the system, could such dirt have affected the automatic filler such that it put too much water in?



Rod and Jamie, thanks again for your helpful replies!



Matt

Volldampf

So far, so good

Water level is still good this morning and the whole system once again purrs like a kitten. Banging gone. Gurgling gone



If only those were the only issues I had. I predict I will be learning more from you all in the very near future.



Matt