Several questions on my steam system

Maestro232

Good Afternoon All.  I have a few questions on my steam system.  It's in a 1930's house that we bought less than a year ago.  It's a one pipe system but we just had the boiler upgraded to an H.B. Smith 8S3.



1.  I have a closed off un-insulated room and vestibule that have radiators but I don't wish to heat.  Can/should I close those down?  I have closed them, but I was reading on this forum that the air vent on the other side could be turned upside down?  How do I do that?



2.  I get lots of knocking so I pitched the radiators a bit more, but then I did something which made a big booboo...I unscrewed one of the vents on the radiators to see if it needed cleaning.  The part I unscrewed was the big nut that holds the bullet-shell-looking-casing to the base of the vent.  What I didn't realize is that the relatively narrow piece that protrudes horizontally out from the base actually screws into the radiator.  Well, when I went to screw main piece back on, I must have turned it too hard and snapped the narrow piece right off the radiator.  In other words, a portion of the threaded narrow piece was stuck, threaded inside the radiator.  So I did a Lowe's run and the guy gave me some stupid tool that looked like a progressively thickening screw which was supposed to get the threaded crap out.  And sure enough, I cracked the radiator around that area.  So, long story short, can this be repaired, if so, how, if not, how do I go about finding a working cast iron radiator?



3.  I can't find any main vents in my basement.  I'm thinking that's a problem.  The idiot at Lowe's didn't even know what a main vent was.  Nor did the guy who put my boiler in.  Can I install one?  how?  I noticed some piping off the main vent in the basement that turns vertical and just ends, and then has a cap on it.  Right above is a hole in the ceiling that's been plugged, so i'm sure there was a radiator up there at one point.  Can I just put the main vent there in place of the plug?

nicholas bonham-carter

broken vent and radiator

can you show us a picture of the broken radiator? i would think, that the hole could be drilled out to the next larger size, tapped for the external diameter of  a bushing put in, whose internal size is the 1/8 in. needed for the new vent. when you use a tap on the radiator, use care not to go in crooked, so as not to put more stress on the radiator walls. perhaps a bit of practice on some other bit of metal will give you the experience you need.

you would find it helpful to have a copy of "the lost art of steaming" from the shop here in order to understand better the principles of operation, and terminology of steam heat.

the needed main vent will need to be beyond the last radiator on the line, which in a counter flow system is at the end; and in a parallel flow system would be close to the boiler on the dry return. surely there should be some previous location, now capped/plugged.

when you experience the water-hammer, can you tell if it was in the pipe, or the radiator, and beginning, or end of cycle?--nbc

Maestro232

hmm...

Thanks for the reply.  I'll see if I can get a pic tonight.

I think the bang is in the pipes and it's at the beginning of the cycle.

I'll look again for a main vent, but if I am understanding you correclty, it would not and should not be in the middle of the main pipe line, but either close or far away from the boiler.  Correct?

crash2009

The main vents

 may have been removed for spitting on the ceiling.  you might be looking for a T fitting, that used to have a main vent installed in it.  This T fitting will be found between the last radiator runout and the boiler.  Sometimes they will be at the end of the main right where it drops down to the floor.  If you do find a mainvent it will look like a large bullet, or a can of tuna.

Jamie Hall

There are lots of reasons...

for banging in the pipes at the beginning of a cycle -- but the most common is that somewhere a pipe (or pipes!) has sagged a little, and traps condensing steam (water) which is then pushed along the pipe by the incoming steam -- making a large bang when the slug of water hits and elbow or T or something like that.  So the first thing I would do is take a look at all the steam lines, and check to see that all of them have a consistent pitch, one way or the other (towards the boiler for counterflow, away from the boiler for parallel flow).  If you find a sag -- or even a level section -- find out what is holding it up, and see if you can eliminate the sag (sometimes it's just a loose hanger).



Don't try to shut off a one pipe steam radiator with its valve -- that's really only there for repair work.  If it leaks -- and most of them do -- steam will get into the radiator anyway, condense, and at best gurgle.  At worst, it can bang in there, too.



As you have found, the radiator vents just screw into the radiator.  To turn one upside down, just turn it half a turn where it screws into the radiator.  However, as you have also discovered, it is possible to break things doing this, so go easy on it.  I might add that most, but not all, vents will shut off that way.

Maestro232

pics of the crack

Here are pics of the cracked radiator with the air vent thread still stuck in there....

nicholas bonham-carter

radiator crack

that is more drastic than i expected. maybe some jb weld would close it up for a short term repair, but probably it will need replacing. the radiator valve will probably also need replacing, unless you can remove the spud without damage, and reuse it in the replacement radiator.

if there are any scrap yards in your area, let them know that you are looking for a radiator. some steam/hydronics companies keep old ones on hand but would likely expect to be paid to do the installation [maybe not such a bad idea in your case].--nbc

Maestro232

how about this?

Well...I have a radiator in a back room that I close off since It's kind of a cold room.  Maybe I could install that one in place of the cracked radiator to buy me a few years?

Steve_175

Old Radiators

Where are you located? You might find something near you here:



http://www.heatinghelp.com/article/9/Virtual-Trade-Show/236/Searching-for-Old-Radiators

nicholas bonham-carter

swapping radiators

that sounds like the best solution. remember that if the steam shutoff valves are not the same on both radiators, that you will need to change the spud, or the valve itself. the spud and the valve are part of a set and must be kept togerther.--nbc

Maestro232

In Western Massachusetts

I'm in Western Mass but go out to the Boston area now and again to visit family, so maybe Somerville will be a good bet.  Thanks for the tip.

Maestro232

Thanks!

Thanks!  While the radiator in back is a little bigger than the busted one I'll swap it with, I can't imagine it being that big a deal.  They are the same valves/spuds, so I think I can do the swap with a little advice from the handyman neighbor next door.

Steve_175

Options

I got my radiator at Radical Radiators in Everett which is only about 5 miles from A-1. I would call them both and see what they have and compare prices.

crash2009

Charlie might have one for sale

 or if not, would likely know where to get one.  His business is in Lennox Dale MA  http://www.heatinghelp.com/professional/221/Charles-Garrity-and-Son-Plumbing-and-Heating

nicholas bonham-carter

reinstalling the radiator

this advice applies to any sort of pipe union with mating faces.

examine carefully the mating faces of the union from spud to valve. if needed use a scotchbrite pad to clean any debris which could prevent a perfect mating of the faces. give a final wipe with an old baby's diaper, and lube the faces with dish-washing liquid. place the two faces together and get the collar seated on the threads of its mate. as you tighten, rock slightly while making sure the axis of alignment is kept for both.

a welding shop may be able to fill in the cracks with some sort of special brazing rod if all other attempts to find a substitute fail. you will still need to keep the spud if you dispose of the radiator in favor of another.

now what about your main vents?--nbc