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spitting steam vaues

I was having problems getting steam to one radiator. It is in the piping that was done when i had an addition done. It wasn't done correctly. I bought a book or two off this site and hired a plumber to redo it. The original piping had two mains with dole1A  valves. replaced them with Gordon 1's. the pressuretrol was set around 3 and now' it's at .5 in and diff at 1.. The rest of the house after some balancing is heating fine.

The problem is with the added or moved lines. I couldn't get it to heat before the rest of the hose came up to temp. The moved piping comes off the header and i don't have a place to put a "main" vent. The old piping was 1inch pipe and fed  baseboard in the kitchen and the radiator(problem one) on the second floor. It was replaced with 2 inch piping  with a T (1 inch pipe) two feed both radiators. I tried shutting  off the kitchen and using a D valve  upstairs but that didn't work. I then added another  valve to the radiator and that seemed to do it but i started pushing out water through the valves once in a while. it's enough  that i can't let it continue. i do run with a 1degree setback. If your still with me here's my question, i added the second value about six inches above the original. Is this the cause of the water? Should i have added the valve somewhere else on the radiator? Thanks for any ideas! 

Comments

  • crash2009
    crash2009 Member Posts: 1,484
    When you say valve

     are you meaning radiator "air vents"?  What is the manufacturer's name of the vent that you added, the one that made everything wet?  Can you show us a picture of the radiator with the 2 vents installed? 
  • freeport28
    freeport28 Member Posts: 6
    here's the pictures

    I stared out with maid o mist steam vents and then replaced them with Gordons . they both pass water. I'm going to put a Gordon # 4  back into the kitchen radiator. Just  to see if it changes anything.
  • nicholas bonham-carter
    nicholas bonham-carter Member Posts: 8,533
    controling spitting radiator

    i would replace those 2 vents with a hoffman 40 in the lower, and a pipe plug in the lower. some condensate must be collecting in the pipe, maybe in a low spot, and therefore blows out through that float-less vent. keep your pressure as low as possible, and see if there is improvement.--nbc
  • freeport28
    freeport28 Member Posts: 6
    Venting

    right now  the top vent is a d  and the bottom is a #6. I need the extra venting so the air is pushed out . With just a D in bottom you can hear the air being pushed out but it doesn't get hot before the system shuts off. Is there something special about Hoffman instead of Grotons? Should I move the second vent to the input of the radiator and place it high? I would guess that once the air is out of the pipes the vent should close when the steam hits it
  • crash2009
    crash2009 Member Posts: 1,484
    edited March 2011
    Couple other things you could try

    1-Go over to the other end of the radiator, make sure the inlet valve is all the way open.

    2-Put a level on top of the rad, shim the air vent end so the rad can drain, not a big slope, just more than level.

    I dont know if the Hoffman 40 is "special".  Normally, the air vent goes in the lowest hole. 



    Is this rad in the new addition?  Whats wrong with the piping to the new addition? 
  • freeport28
    freeport28 Member Posts: 6
    One room is cold

    The old piping was just wrong, i ended up with kitchen hot and no heat to the second floor. They had used an elbow 1/2 inch at best to feed the upstairs. surprisingly it worked for a year or so with the boiler cycling between the pressure settings. On and off. i got Dan's book and when from there. The steam guy that the plumber brought with him had suggested venting the house with c and d . This resulted in the thermostat being satisfied way before upstairs had any heat. I've gotten the house balanced except for this one room. it seems like a venting problem since the boiler would turn off before the heat hit the room and all the other radiators were hot and the vents were closed. i added another vent (idea from book) and i had heat but water followed. it's almost as if the vents fail after awhile. i went back and read the book and the suggestion was to add the value lower. I added higher. The radiator is pitched and the valve is open. Thanks again for any thoughts on this issue.
  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 17,777
    Have you tried

    adding a big vent -- a mains type vent -- to the runout or riser serving this radiator before it gets to the valve and the radiator?  If the runout and riser involved has any significant length -- and I rather gather it has -- you are trying to vent all of that and the radiator too with the radiator vent alone.  Radiator vents aren't meant to do that.  I'd be tempted to find a nice place on the runout or riser, as close to the radiator as possible, and put a Gorton #1 or #2 on there.  Then go with a Hoffman on the radiator itself.



    And check my pressures.  It isn't unusual for too high a pressure to make even a good vent spit...
    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
  • freeport28
    freeport28 Member Posts: 6
    Reply To Jamie

    I guess that's what i'm trying to do. I'm trying to vent through the radiator. I don't have a spot where i can add a  Gordon on the runout (  15 feet 2 inch pipe) . the riser ( 9feet 1 inch pipe) goes to the second floor and i don't have a good place to put one. It would have to be right before or after the shut off valve. I'm suspecting that this might be a psi issue. Perhaps the control is malfunctioning or the tube is blocked up. I've ordered a psi guage which i will put in line with the vent and see what i get. I have set the pressuretrol to .5 cut in and 1 differential. One quick question on the differential adjustment. It looks to me on the Honeywell control that the switch with the wheel has a white mark on it's side. this is facing you when you remove the cover. i lined the number 1 on the wheel with that mark.  Would you know if that's correct? The siphon on the control is 3/8 and i was told that i should change it to 1/2. Is  this needed or just smart because it's bigger and less likely to get blocked? I'm in the service business but i get tentative when i start to take things apart that i don't have a good working knowledge off. I guess that comes from having to work on other folks attempts at repairs. Thanks again for any ideas and I'll be back once i do the PSI stuff
  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 17,777
    Riser vent

    Can you cut in a T just below the radiator valve, take a short nipple on the leg of the T, then 90 up and say a foot nipple, then a vent on top of that?



    The pressure settings sound OK.  Is the siphon brass or iron?  If it's red brass, I'd say stay with it.  If it's iron, and you are even vaguely suspicious of its being clogged, I'd swap it out for a half inch red brass pigtail -- they don't clog as easily.
    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
  • freeport28
    freeport28 Member Posts: 6
    More venting

    i think what I'm going to do is remove the shut off value and install a tee. I'll vent out off the top of the tee and re-pipe the radiator. I'll go with the Hoffman for the radiator and a Gordon  1 for the vent and see what happens. I have to buy some big wrench's to!
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