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Are Triangle Tube Prestige Solo boilers another boiler rebadged?

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DigitalBob
DigitalBob Member Posts: 15
in THE MAIN WALL
I have a Triangle Tube Prestige Solo 60 with a blown main board due to a faulty control.  I am trying to hunt one down used without much success and was hoping to broaden my search.  Are these manufactured elsewhere and rebadged by Triangle Tube or only available as a Triangle Tube product?  Is there is a source for used boards on these?  Thank you.

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  • Gordan
    Gordan Member Posts: 891
    edited February 2011
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    The control is Honeywell MCBA, but I don't know about interchangeability...

    Are you sure it's not just a blown fuse? If you have access to anyone with good electronics aptitude, perhaps repairing it is not out of the question, depending on what blew.



    Triangle Tube makes their own boilers and I'm pretty sure that there's no rebadged Prestige Solo, at least in the US. Other boilers do use MCBA controllers, but I have no clue what differences there may be.
  • Mark Eatherton
    Mark Eatherton Member Posts: 5,853
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    The board has to be programmed...

    to the specific product. Unless you get REAL lucky, you won't find one. If you do, make darned sure it is programmed for THAT boiler and THAT application, or you may be looking for a new boiler too....



    ME

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  • Gordan
    Gordan Member Posts: 891
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    If it's as simple as just different programming...

    It should be possible to swap PROMs, IF one knows what they are doing. But there may be differences on the hardware side, as well...
  • Tim McElwain
    Tim McElwain Member Posts: 4,625
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    MCBA for those units is

    specific to TT and must be replaced with the exact replacement. I would stay away from used boards or any boards not directly associated with TT.



    What is wrong with the unit that makes you sure it is the board?
  • DigitalBob
    DigitalBob Member Posts: 15
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    Board definitely bad

    The burn't trace and big burnt area is the giveaway.

    I managed to come up with an identical board but do not know where the eproms to be switched out are.  Does anyone have experience with this?

    Thank you
  • EddieG
    EddieG Member Posts: 150
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    Make sure.....

    Make sure you test everything possible before you install replacement board. If there is a short or a faulty component, you may end up with another bad board.
  • EddieG
    EddieG Member Posts: 150
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    Make sure.....

    Make sure you test everything possible before you install replacement board. If there is a short or a faulty component, you may end up with another bad board.
  • Mark Eatherton
    Mark Eatherton Member Posts: 5,853
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    Suggestion...

    Contact the local rep, and have them program the board for your application. If you stick the wrong board (rated for a larger or smaller burner capacity) in your boiler, you could have some SERIOUS carbon monoxide issues, or worse (melted down mass of molten stainless steel...)



    These parameters are not consumer adjustable, and must be done by a person that is qualified and authorized. And as the other poster said, make sure there aren't other issues, or you may end up with TWO bad boards.



    ME

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  • DigitalBob
    DigitalBob Member Posts: 15
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    Thanks for the info

    I am in Cinicnnati and we do very few boilers around these parts.  I'm checking but I am not very confident I would be able to get it done here.  Do you know of anyone I could mail this off to who could do it?  Thanks.
  • Tim McElwain
    Tim McElwain Member Posts: 4,625
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    Get in touch with the factory

    and I am sure they will come up with someone to help you out. They have a school in New Jersey and keep track of those who attend their school so if there is someone near you they can hook you up.



    If you have any trouble let me know and I will hook you up with our local guy here in New England.
  • Tony_23
    Tony_23 Member Posts: 1,033
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    T-T

    Attending their school doesn't give anyone in the field the ability to program MCBA's.



    Might better just have bought one from  a T-T dealer.
  • Tim McElwain
    Tim McElwain Member Posts: 4,625
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    Tony I am quite aware of that

    there is however a software program that factory reps sometimes have called GasCom for the MCBA. The gent posting however claims that no one in his area knows anything about the TT so I was referring him to the factory. for assistance, as I am sure they may have someone who attended their school near him.



    There is nothing that can be done to repair any control boards by anyone in the field. I think I know that after nine years in the navy working in electronics. I also have over 50 years in the gas heating business with 28 of those as an instructor with a major gas utility in Rhode Island.
  • Tony_23
    Tony_23 Member Posts: 1,033
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    Tim

    I know your credentials, Tim. No disrespect is intended, just clarification of the facts. Having been to T-T's class in NJ and having asked about reprogramming another mfg's version of Honeywell's MCBA to work in a Prestige, I know I'm right.



    I have Gascom software also, but it won't let me program a Honeywell MCBA from one mfg to another. It will only allow changing settings within the parameters that the boiler mfg allows to be changed in the field. There are many parameters in a W-M Ultra series 1 & 2 that are field adjustable  that are not even accessible in a T-T  unit. The MCBA's are identical, but certain parameters are set @ the factory and are locked out to anyone else. I'm pretty sure there are different versions of Gascom just like there are different versions of MCBA's.
  • Tim McElwain
    Tim McElwain Member Posts: 4,625
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    Tony,

    Do you find that the GasCom software is of any value. In talking to a rep from Burnham they stated that they do not use it much. I am just curious as to its effectiveness in setup or overall diagnosis of problems?
  • Tony_23
    Tony_23 Member Posts: 1,033
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    Gascom

    You can do anything with the keypad that you can do with gascom. Every boiler mfg has the MCBA for their respective boiler programmed the THAT boiler. Dealer/user/rep programming falls within what the factory leaves open for field setting.



    A W-M MCBA will not operate to T-T specs, nor the other way around. Gascom does not get you into that realm either.



    I also wouldn't call an MCBA a "control board". It is more like a laptop installed in the boiler. Costs about the same, too.



    Tim, didn't you just turn 70 ?
  • Mark Eatherton
    Mark Eatherton Member Posts: 5,853
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    It's a PLC....

    ALL of these boilers are using the equivilant of a PLC (Programmable Logic Controller).



    Have not had a lot of experience with the MCBA, but have extensive experience witht he Italian SIT control used on Munchkins and Knights. THeir graphic outputs are essentially identical, but the user ability on the Knight is substantially deeper than the Munchie.



    I think that SIT is probably the responsible party, at the boiler manufacturers direction, that determines what parameters you can adjust, and what parameters are logged into memory for errors.



    Pretty much everything that is automated is controlled by a PLC at one level or another, including automobiles.



    I am working with one now that uses a Boolean language and can be set up to do pretty much anything I want it to do either digitally or analog signal wise. I can program it via my PC's, and can even access it on line, or have it contact me via email if there are any issues. I call it my markmar :-)



    Times, they are a changin' :-)



    ME

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  • Tim McElwain
    Tim McElwain Member Posts: 4,625
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    Actually I turned 71

    I am writing from the home for those who can't care for themselves. My nurse is feeding me as I write.



    It is not my claim that techs, homeowners nor anyone should be interchanging electronic controls or in any way attempting to reprogram those controls..



    However in the Weil-McLain instruction book for the GasCom software on page 3 lists parameters that should not be changed on the MCBA control. Weil-McLain uses one of two boards the MCBA14A-1004 and the MCBA14A1012. MCBA's here in the USA are used on Cleaver Brooks, Patterson Kelley, Burnham, Crown and Utica boilers. The control has been in us in Europe for many years before its use in the US.



    It however goes on to say on page 7 with a warning I should ad I quote, "Entering the access code makes all parameters 1 through 42 available for change".



    I also have the factory 75 page Honeywell Product Specification MCBA142xxD with software 45006968-124 (HR7A60HZ). Its document number is 45007028-001. It is extensive in illustrating the ability to change operating codes and parameters with proper software.



    There is also a Triangle Tube Prestige Control Application Supplement- Type 5 MCBA calls the "board" a Electronic Microprocessor Controller. My experience with microprocessors is that they can be reprogrammed if you have the correct software. In fact many of the microprocessors used on gas equipment today only use about 50% of their capability. This means they have more "brain" space available. You can install what are called blinds (some call them by another name) to prevent reprogramming or restrict access to certain portions of the microprocessor. The thing is they can be reprogrammed if you have the right software. I get concerned when I know that by the way. Why you say do you have concern? Because we have homeowners out there in "gas equipment land" that know a lot more about microprocessors than any of us and they could start "fooling around".



    Now it is time for my nurse to put me back in my room with the other "old folks".
  • Mark Eatherton
    Mark Eatherton Member Posts: 5,853
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    Hope you're feeling better Tim...

    Still pulling for you on this end.



    ME

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  • Tim McElwain
    Tim McElwain Member Posts: 4,625
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    I guess I need to be careful

    I was just kidding about being in the home, it was in reference to Tony posting "didn't you just turn 70". I am doing much better and went back to work this week.
  • Mark Eatherton
    Mark Eatherton Member Posts: 5,853
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    Yeah, us OLD guys got to stick together....

    Still pulling for you just the same and glad you're doing better.



    ME

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  • DigitalBob
    DigitalBob Member Posts: 15
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    I'm not looking to tweak anything...

    The old one blew up due to flakey house wiring and I'm still attempting to locate someone capable of programing the board to factory specs.  And yes, these cost about the same as a new laptop.  I have the new board, just not the ability to program it for my Triangle Tube Solo 60.  Any help appreciated.  Thanks.
  • Tim McElwain
    Tim McElwain Member Posts: 4,625
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    Get in touch with the factory

    they will walk you through it on the phone. It is not something we can do here in this venue.



    Do you have the Installation and Operating manual?
  • DigitalBob
    DigitalBob Member Posts: 15
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    I have all of the literature

    I have all of the literature that came with it.  I can change what is available to me but I wasn't sure whether or not there others that I do not have access to that would need to be changed as well.
  • Mark Eatherton
    Mark Eatherton Member Posts: 5,853
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    Unless it is an EXACT match...

    and by EXACT match, I mean it was meant for use with YOUR particular model of boiler, I wouldn't put it in.



    There are parameters that MUST be adjusted, based on burner size, and if you put the wrong control on a smaller boiler, you will over fire it, possibly resulting in loss of life or property.



    This is what we've been trying to tell you all along.



    Looks are not everything. And unless you have authorized soft ware, you DON'T have access to the critical parameters.



    ME

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This discussion has been closed.

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