IBC Boilers?

JackH

I had a rep. come in yesterday with information about IBC boliers.

Has anyone installed or know about them?

Looks like a nice boiler.

Thanks

bob eck

IBC Boiler

This boiler looks very interesting. do you have or know what the heat exchanger looks like. I take it this boiler needs to be piped primary secondary. did they give you any cost on this boiler? can you email me cost? eckrobert@rcn.com thanks bob

Gordy

IBC

  The HX is similar to the Triangle Tube design.  I like the 10:1 turn down they have. The VFC 15-150 has input of 150000 down to 15000 btu can cover an array of situations. It would be nice to see a 100000 btu unit. They are pricey compared to a TT. 



 What scares me is they are just becoming available in the U.S. so parts, and service with people who deal with them are scarce.  But if suppliers choose not to sell them, then that will never come around. Kinda of a catch 22, suppliers don't carry them they will never take hold in the market. But I can understand suppliers not wanting to carry them if people chose not to buy for reasons I stated.





Gordy





Gordy 

Tim McElwain

Distributor here in the

Northeast (New England) is Richard Trethewey of RST, he used to rep Viessmann. It looks to me like a very nice package with a pretty simple set-up  in order to be user friendly. I have not actually seen one in operation, just saw it at the Propane Tradeshow this last fall.

SpeyFitter

Installed lots, know them well

Since I live in the very town where they are manufacturered (or at least a suburb of Vancouver, BC), and I've installed a fair amount of them, you could say I'm slightly biased because parts are readily available and I know a few of the support people by name at the factory and I've even had the President come help me with an emergency service call once when I was stuck in a rutt (and he missed a school function for his daughter to attend, which I feel bad about, but this is the support they give).

Is there anything specific you would like to know about them?  I've done several posts about them on here in the past and if you did a search you could garner some information from some of mine and others past posts.

They have been in the modulating condensing boilers as long or longer than anyone, though. They are expanding accross North America with their strongest presence being in Canada (obviously) and the more western states in the US.

Steve Whitbeck

IBC heat exchanger

Just looked at a picture of the heat exchanger. There is a picture showing the top without the blower connector installed. Looks like a Giononi (sp) style only much longer and mounted vertically.

SpeyFitter

Definately not a Giannoni

IBC's heat exchanger on their 15-150 and 45-225 is DEFINATELY not a Giannoni.  

These two boilers, however, share the same heat exchanger, which is an IBC patented design. The only main difference is the 45-225 has a larger fan to move more air/fuel (and a very slightly taller cabinet to accomodate this larger fan)due to its larger input and subsequently it also allows for longer venting runs (240 intake/240 exhaust on natural gas) as well than the 15-150 (120 intake/120 exhaust on natural gas).

The heat exchanger is a down firing water tube heat exchanger with 3 rows of water coils that surround each (1 inner most coil and 2 rows of coils wrapped around the inner most coil - the burner hangs in the middle of the inner most coil) other with a cylinder burner that hangs upside down (sort of like the fire tube style mod-cons like TT and the soon to come out Lochinvar Knight fire tubes). This heat exchanger is made out of 316 Titanium Stabilized Stainless Steel (the same material Viessmann uses on their Vitodens as well as Cleaver Brooks on their Clearfire commercial boilers) and due to sheer mass of tubes present this boiler can soak up a lot of the heat that comes from the burner. Unlike the Viessmann Vitodens and Giannoni designs which have only 1 row of water coils in a horizontal orientation and subsequently they experience lower efficiency at higher firing rates, this heat exchanger, which weighs about 95 pounds alone, can soak up just about anything the burner can throw at it and I've seen virtually the exact same efficiencies at high fire as at low fire using an analyzer on several units. The gaps between the heat exchanger coils are a slightly larger than other water tube style mod-cons, however since there are tubes in behind in the outer most rows that soak up the heat, this isn't an issue in loss of efficiency or heat transfer. It also allows the boiler a better element of self cleaning (combined with it's down firing design), since most contaminants will more easily pass through the gaps instead of accumulate as easily as other designs where the gaps are much smaller. The condensate literally "plinkos" its way down between the tubes as it heads for the external condensate trap mounted in the vent piping just outside the boiler.

IBC's newer boilers, their SL80-399 (came out mid 2010) and their newest boiler (still waiting to appear on their website, but it is out) the SL20-115 are both downfiring fire tube heat exchangers much like the triangle tube and soon to come out Lochinvar Knight Fire Tube boilers.

I'll tell you what - if you decide to take on IBC Boilers in your area, when I used to regularly service these boilers more often (e.g. heat exchanger cleaning, regular maintenance, etc.) there aren't too many parts  you need to carry. IBC's ignition & flame rectification system for example, works off of the same flame rod/igniter as opposed to most other mod-cons which have a seperate igniter and seperate flame rod. Whether this is beneficial or a disdvantage is up for debate, but  this means less parts to carry. If you phone up IBC and ask to talk to Ian, he could give you the scoop on some consumable parts worth carrying should a problem arise, however I haven't seen too many issues with these boilers, personally.

Jack Hinz

Thank you Guys......

I have been in heating for over 30 years on the contractor side....



Last summer I took employment as Supply house HVAC salesman.



I had a Manufactures rep. come see me with this product line and I never heard of them.

I had installed NTI, Knight and Weil Mclain's as a contractor, but looking at the website I was really impressed with this boiler.



The next step is pricing on them. and parts availability.

I then could pitch them to the higher ups at corporate.



At our branch location, other supply houses in the area sell all the same units.

Just trying to look for something better.



Thanks Jack



*********



If this is any indication of pricing that I found on this page link

http://www.e-comfortusa.com/categories/high-efficiency-boilers/143_145



"BY NO MEANS DO I PROMOTE THIS LINK, JUST SHOWING FOR REFERENCE"



Then this may NOT be an alternative to my ModCon boiler search, to compete

against locate suppliers......

Paul Pollets

Too bad...

they're not in Seattle...Rather a large market only 120 mile away. No rep, no dealer, no presence.

SpeyFitter

Go to the horse for pricing

However IBC Boilers ARE on the more expensive end if you are looking at just a number, but for what you get built in, they are a great value, and I dare you to price out a comparable boiler such as a Vitodens 200 (as an example) with comparable features control wise. You'll need their power pump module (parts) plus you need to wire/install it (parts/labour) versus the built in control in the IBC has that is quite sophisticated. To run the number of secondary pumps the IBC has the ability to control (1 primary pump and 3 secondary pumps, if you choose to do a primary/secondary pump with internal control switching, or 3 pumps in a parallel configuration if you just have fixed head loads) you'll need additional external wiring/controls (parts/labour), to control/wire those additional pumps.

Right out of the box I can heat radiant floors, a pool or spa, and an indirect all off the controller with the only external control being an A419 to control the water temperature on the pool water side. The Boiler controls all the pumps and only requires a dry contact close for each load it may heat and you can set the parameters for how much attention the boiler pays to each load.

Mnjh76

Help With my IBC 15-150

  I have  A 15-150  heating the floor in my shop.  The unit worked well for the first two years , then late last heating season I started to get ignition time out errors.  This problem seemed to fix its self , but then after the first month of running this season started to act-up again and now will not fire at all.       I have followed the trouble shooting tips in the manual.  I dont think Iam getting spark but it is hard to see through the viewing port.    any tip/sugestions  would be apreciated.



Thanks

Mark

Jim Godbout

IBC installer

yes we have installed many with great results in larger installations and some higher end residential jobs

here is a couple of pictures of installs

Very good relationship with rep and manufacturer.

good luck in decisions

jim



 we have more to see at our web site if you need to see more

www.jimgodbout.com