Numerous Furnace Problems

Zman500

I have a Burnham v-14 with a Honeywell r8182h aquastat. Lately there has been a delayed ignite (furnace starts and a second or many later it lights). Recently, the delay was so long that the aqua stat shut it down and I came home to a cold house and a puddle of water around the burner. Service guy was here today, said the transformer was the cause of the delayed ignition and nothing can be done. He suspected the contact springs and changed them but it didn't seem to help. He noticed the circulator was never coming on and tested the wiring and said the aqua stat was not sending current to it and was bad. I was getting heat from natural circulation only. I believe the puddle is coming from a bad gasket where the tankless opening is (it is not used). For the last couple of years I've gotten leaking when I shut the unit down at the end of the season, when the unit cools off the leak appears. Is it time to replace the whole furnace, or should I get these things fixed? At the end of the season, the leak lasts a month or so, then stops, although I suppose it will get worse over time. Also, should I attempt to change the aqua stat myself? I'm fairly handy, and it doesn't seem that hard. Can really nothing be done about the delayed ignition, short of a new transformer? I thought an adjustment is available. Guidance is most appreciated.

Steamhead

Which burner

is on that boiler?



The coil plate gasket is probably loose. Try tightening the bolts- but DON'T FORCE THEM if they won't turn- you don't want to break them off.

Jamie Hall

If the transformer is weak

or bad, it's weak or bad.  Period.  There's nothing to be done about that except replace it.

billtwocase

Sounds like the place to start

is with a new service company. What does he mean that nothing can be done? It can be replaced. As far as the aquastat, that can also be replaced. These 2 parts are a whole heck of a lot cheaper than a new boiler. I would also have the coil plate gasket replaced in the off season. As long as it is hot, it doesn't leak? 

Jamie Hall

Oh right...

I meant to replace the transformer if it's bad -- not the whole boiler!  Good Lord.  Transformers aren't all that expensive to buy, and easy to replace. 

billtwocase

I knew

what you meant Jamie. As for a homeowner replacing a safety control, I would say hire someone. Nothing to gamble with. It will be a pricey control, but keep in mind it does it all for that system.

StevenB

I would

look carefully at the tankless coil plate before I did anything with this older boiler. If the plate has leaked for years, it's likely the boiler is now junk due to corrosion behind the plate. Cast iron will pit to the point that a new gasket won't cure your problem. If that looks good, replacing the control and transformer is worthwhile. Do yourself a favor, don't replace your control with another 8182, they were junk and always will be, instead have a L7224U aquastat installed along with a R7124U cad cell relay. This will cost slightly more but then you will have two separate controls that are much cheaper to replace individually if they fail.

Zman500

Burner

The burner is a Sunray FC134.

Zman500

Thanks!

Thanks everyone for the excellent advice. I was concerned about throwing money into a boiler that was old, and also the new ones are more efficient (when I had a tune up a couple months ago, they wrote that it was 76 percent efficient.). It's a good idea, StevenB, to check for corrosion before replacing the other parts. I think I will do that and if it looks good, then have the repairs done, and look into separate controls. One more thing, Some years ago I had the delayed ignition problem, and I seem to remember they were able to make some adjustment I think to the copper leads (?) that the transformer energizes. I remember the problem got fixed but the transformer wasn't replaced. Could it be anything other than a weak transformer?

World Plumber

Test

Did the tech test the transformer. Conceivably yes, the electrodes could be cracked or adjusted wrong. A weak transformer will burn them down.

     A good tech will have a tester to test the transformer. I like finding them on the annual service. Beats going out late at night in the snow for a no heat call. 

Zman500

Correct

it doesn't leak when hot.  Good point about waiting until the off season before replacing the coil plate gasket.  Thanks!

billtwocase

efficiency readings

sound low for a "V" series Burnham. Can you post the results, burner brand, and nozzle installed. Sounds like a 4 section boiler.

Zman500

Efficiency readings

Burner is Sunray FC 134. The writing on the tune up receipt is really sloppy, so I might not have these correct, but looks like Net Stack = 450, CO2= 7, Smoke =OT, Breech Draft =.04. Efficiency =76%. I believe he replaced a nozzle, screen, and filter. I dont know which is which, but numbers look like 4m607, 2m011, and 1P578.

billtwocase

If anyone will know

Steamhead will. The Bantam burner is his specialty. If it is set up right, you should be more into the lower 80% scale for efficiency. It won't give today's units much of a run for the money, but 76% is not where that should be.  Also on that boiler, I would make sure the target wall is not falling forward. That will change everything. Steam? It's all yours bud.

Steamhead

Thanks, Bill

that burner has the wrong nozzle in it. 4M607 is the stock number for a Delavan 1.00x60°B nozzle. This is a solid-cone nozzle with a 60° spray angle. In the V-14, the FC-134 needs a 70° solid nozzle. The flame is probably slamming the target wall.



The low efficiency may also be caused by an improper head adjustment. This burner is not unlike a Carlin, in that you can slide the head back and forth to fine-tune the air pattern at the head. I think the head is letting too much air around the rim, and it's not mixing with the oil properly.



Originally, the FC series used the then-standard pump pressure of 100 PSI. If I were setting that up today, I'd use a 0.85x70°B and raise the pump pressure to 140 PSI. This will give better atomization and reduce the amount of sooting. I'd also install an oil-delay valve to clean up the light-off and shutdown. This is a good idea on any oil burner.



If your oil company can't get this right, try the Find a Contractor page of this site.

icesailor

Bag Gaskets:

This is a common problem with boilers and gaskets. They usually come as antique red rubber that dries out to a level as hard as a tar road. The water seeps farther into the gasket over time. The water evaporates and turns to steam leaving deposits behind. It corrodes the CI boiler surface and the plate surface. It finally pushes out so you can see it. The water evaporates leaving signs. If the boiler goes off on safety and the whole system gets cold, it will often leak badly out of the gasket. Everything shrinks up. Then, when you fire it off and it goes back to temperature, the leak seems to stop. It hasn't. If you try to change the gasket, you might find that you must change the boiler because the tankless bolts are welded into the block and must be drilled out AND the CI surfaces are so pitted, you can't replace the gasket and have it not leak.

It is very common to have certain boilers leak badly when they are off on safety and stop when they are hot. Especially, Peerless JO boilers.

billtwocase

my thoughts exactly

I knew you would nail it Steam. I would also jack up the pump pressure, .85 70B, and prepurge somehow. Unfortunately the control is probably an 8182H or J. 

billtwocase

gasket

I only use teflon Redi-Rope on coil plates. Rubber gaskets don't hold up unless it is Gator matereial

Zman500

Thanks!

Thanks so much, all, for the excellent help. I will take your advice about increasing efficiency and will investigate what can be done about the leaking gasket. Hopefully that hasn't damaged the boiler too badly. This site is fantastic. I'll report the results.