Crown versus Weil McLain

mbarrett03

I am looking to upgrade my home's heating system and have two similarly priced estimates to choose from. I currently have a 40 year old gas boiler (oil conversion) and 50 gal. WDH.



I did my research on the two companies proving these estimates and they are both well regarded and agreed to do similar work. Both are suggesting a ~92% AFUE condensing boiler and indirect water heater. The only difference between these two estimate that I can see is the make/model of the boiler and water heater.



The more expensive of the two quotes includes a Crown BWC151ENSTIPSU Bimini gas boiler and Crown MS-53 package tank 53 gallons with control.



The other estimate includes Weil McLain Ultra 105 boiler with a Super Stor SSU 45 Indirect Water Heater.



The quotes differ by 8%



I was wondering if there are any clear differences between the Crown and Weil McLain /Super Stor products that might tilt me one way or the other.



Thanks in advance for your help.

Matt

heatboy

Having worked with Crown for years.........

.....they would, obviously, be my choice.  If there are any issues, which have been far and few between, a call to the factory in Philly solved them and I never heard the famous line from them of, "That's never happened to anyone else."  ;-)

I would also choose the MegaStor over the SuperStor.



Check it out here:  http://www.crownboiler.com/products/res_gas/bimini.asp

tim smith

Re: boiler selection

I would look into a Triangle tube Prestige condensing boiler. It has been bullet proof for us over the last almost 5 yrs and around 50 installed. They are a real good piece of equipment. Nothing bad about Weil but definately my preference.

tim smith

Re: boiler selection

I would look into a Triangle tube Prestige condensing boiler. It has been bullet proof for us over the last almost 5 yrs and around 50 installed. They are a real good piece of equipment. Nothing bad about Weil but definately my preference.

bill_105

II's the installer

The products are both great stuff. Develop a relationship with both installers and pick from which will be responsive to stuff down the road.

 I just got done with an install in which the women flipped. 

 Halfway into the new boiler and indirect- I get slammed with Divorce,menopause, puberty with junior, car needs a grand in work , Dog had to be put down (That one really got to me, truthfully) .

Now at the end - Here comes the terms of payment. Not at the beginning, but now !! And the worst part is it's neighbors.

I did good work but, but reluctant to evan talk.

Get a good installer!!

mbarrett03

Thanks for all the advice.

What really got me worries was when I did some googling on Crown and Weil McLain products.  Granted that everything online needs to be taken with a grain of salt, but I read allot of almost entirely negative reviews of Weil McLain products.  The complaints with WL were centered around two issues: equipment breakdown and lousy support from the company. 



I guess I'd be interested if anyone here had any success stories with Weil McLain as that is the less expensive of my two options...just nervous about it based on what I've read.



Matt

Jean-David Beyer

Just a homeowner.

I have a Weil McLain Ultra 3 80,000 BTU/hr boiler and their 38 gallon indirect fired hot water heater. Since it was installed in mid-May 2009, it has run continuously because it supplies my house with domestic hot water. It also ran the entire winter of 2009-2010, and so far in this winter of 2010-2011. There were no problems so far with the boiler.



I did have problems with the contractor who installed it.



1.) The pressure relief valve was piped to drain between the wall and the rear of the boiler, where it is inaccessable. So I could not see if it ever relieved itself, and I did not dare test it because it would get water where it should not be.



2.) They did not install Sentinal X-100  water treatment as required by the manufacturer. They said it was not necessary.



3.) They did not have a combustion analyzer to set up the burner when they completed installation. They said it is set up at the factory.



4.) At the time for the 1-year service, they refused to follow the manufacturer's instructions for doing that service. They actually said that gas burners do not require maintenance.  I tried to communicate with them, but they would not return my telephone calls, would not answer my e-mails, and did not answer the regular mail I sent them. I spoke with a representative of Weil McLain and he said the contractor should follow the maintenance instructions in the manual. He even volunteered to come out when their service person came out to do the service correctly. But I could never get through to make an appointment for that.



5.) The exhaust PVC pipe was run exactly horizontal, instead of sloping down toward the boiler, so the exhaust that condensed in the vent dribbles out the side of the house instead of running out the condensate drain. Sloppy.



6.) No bonding of flex gas line. In my non-professional opinion, it did not save them much labor to use that instead of a piece of one-inch black pipe. I happen to think that in my case it is unnecessary; the gas inspector seemed to think it OK.



Now I have a new contractor. He came out and fixed the relief valve to drain in a suitable location.  A little later he did the required annual service and did everything except he also did not do a combustion test because he said his analyzer would not work on a mod|con. There seems to be a real reluctance to doing combustion testing here in New Jersey. He also would not test the relief valves. No one wants to do that. It seems to me all you have to do is pull the lever and observe what happens. And have a spare in case it does not close properly. I even bought a spare for the boiler because the guy said there were too many different kinds to have one like mine on the truck. Anyhow, he even came with a caulking gun and a cartridge of Sentinal X-100 to put into the system without being asked. He also replaced the ignitor (sparking kind) even though it looked OK to me. Probably easy to do when the thing was apart.



Now this is only one boiler and after only about 18 months, so conclude what you want. I would say the boiler is OK, the original contractor fairly good at installation, but hopeless about adjustments and maintenance, W-M seemed cooperative, and the new contractor is much better than the old one, but not perfect.

Al Letellier_21

which is best??

As previously mentioned in another post, they are both quality products, but since you asked about Weil McLain, I can't sit here and not answer. I just retired my tools after 50 years in the trade, the last 18 or so self employed and I have installed literally hundreds of boilers, most of which were Weil McLain and I swear by them. And that is what I have in my house. After 32 years here on oil, I am switching to gas. I will be installing an Ultra boiler and after installing many of them over the past few years, I am very comfortable using this product.

Great boilers, great support and great performance. Just don't be fooled by the 92-95% claims. Unless you have radiant heat, your effciency will be lower as there will be less condensing with a high temp system. But you will be miles ahead of what you've got. Don't be afraid to go with the Weil.....I think it is one of the best ones out there.

Jean-David Beyer

I have not figured out what this means yet...

The condensate from my W-M Ultra 3 dribbles from a pipe on the side of my house onto the ground. For laughs, I put a 2-gallon bucket under it and notice I am getting about a bucket full of water a day. Sometimes it is more, but I cannot tell how much more. Yesterday was slightly less (warm all day). I guess I should measure the amount of natural gas I use in the same interval. Design day is 14F here in N.J.



I do have radiant downstairs, and I expect to rarely run more than 108F water into the slab. I also have baseboard upstairs, where I do not expect to run water over 131F. So I expect I am getting a lot of condensing. Since I do not do snow melting, I guess I cannot get 98% though. I guess around 92 to 93%.

Ironman

Condensate on Ground

JDB,



Looks like your contractor left you with another issue. The condensate should discharge to a place where it can't freeze, not on the exterior of your house. If the line freezes, your boiler may shut down.

Jean-David Beyer

I think it will be all right.

If we are talking about the condensate that is deliberately discharged outside my house, I think it will be OK. The water comes out of the boiler into a condensate pump. When the pump fills mostly up, the pump pumps the water up to about my height, across the wall, and down to the pipe that goes outside the house. Most of that is 1/2" vinyl tubing. But the part that goes out is 1 1/2 inch or perhaps 2 inch. They screwed it up a little as there were nearly horizontal parts of that tubing that looked neat, but acted as traps. I re-routed it so it was pretty much downhill all the way. Furthermore, I put a T at the highest point and ran more tube as high as I could get and down into a bucket. This acts as a vacuum breaker.All this is in my garage. So if that condensate tube freezes up, the water would go into the bucket and if I see any water in it, I know there is trouble. When the condensate pump runs, it is for less than a minute, and when it stops, all the water runs out. Design day around here is 14F which can freeze the stuff, but it is moving pretty fast and does not seem to freeze. But I do keep an eye on it. I do not think I would have trouble until the 1/2 inch stuff in the garage freezes, and even then I would probably just overflow the bucket if I did not look at it. It worked all last winter and it got below 10F for a little while one day.



I would be more concerned with the vent pipe that seems to slope toward the outside instead of toward the boiler as specified in the I&M manual. That is 3-inch PVC, and I am allowed 2-inch. Water comes out of that sometimes (instead of going back to the boiler) and freezes on the wall of my garage. It won't hurt anything on the vinyl wall, but if it significantly obstructs the vent, I suppose temperatures will be wrong and the controller will shut the thing down. That is messy and I do not like it. Maybe this summer I will get my new contractor to fix that; for pay, unfortunately.

Chris S

Crown vs weil

I also have installed Weil, Crown, and most recently Triangle Tube.  The Crown, and Weil McLain are both aluminum HX, Triangle Tube is Stainless Steel.  We started  with the Weil Ultras, only one that has needed parts ( 6 yrs old now, an ignitor, and most recently a gas valve).  We switched to Crown because the supplier was much better and more convenient than was my WM supplier.  I had some minor issues with the Crown boilers, but as mentioned above they are outstanding at customer service.  I've been to training sessions with them, and the reps gave out their cell numbers.  Crown is an an excellent company.My Favorite supplier started stocking Triangle Tube last year, so it was an easy decision to start using their boilers. 

One of the things that really interested me was the parts case they sell, which we bought with our first boiler.  When the WM needed an ignitor, it took 3 days to get.  Now if I get a no heat call, I put the TT parts case in the truck, and am confident that I'll get that unit running again that day.  The most recent call I had was on that 6 yr old WM, and coincidentally it uses the same gas valve as the TT so I had it with me, and dot it running in short order.

Bottom Line is... who is reputable, are there parts available, do they have a good reputation for their service work.  A lot of our installs are LP, and the LP service techs by and large have no idea what to do with these boilers, so the guy you're buying it from had better.