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I've inherited a red headed step child...

Mark Eatherton
Mark Eatherton Member Posts: 5,839
complete with freckles, pimples and an attitude. He spells his name Riello...



He is mated to a Buderi G205 (225K max output) at 8,000 feet above Los Angles, and he's sucking on propane.



First off, I suspect a bad ignition module, and naturally, there are Z E R O in town ;-(



Thanks to the resourceful Dennis Bellanti with Ferguson Enterprises, he was able to track a new ignition module down in Wyoming at Blue Line Supply, and it is on its way to Denver the expensive way.



But that is not the end of the story. Every time I touch a Riello, I end up losing a minimum of one days worth of productive labor. I follow the manufacturers instructions to the T, and still, hard lite off, and in some cases, an in boiler explosion.



I am trying to set this one up on its minimum fire capacity, and maybe that is the error of my ways, but its only a 3,000 sq ft castle, and I can't see it needing much more than 90K btuH at design condition.



Anyone out there have substantial experience with these beasts at altitude, and with LP? Any help would be useful. There was an older gent a long time ago whom I used to be able to call in a pinch, that worked for Riello, and I have since lost his contact information, and am not even sure he's still around working for them. Got any good field contacts I can call?



Riello tech service is responsive, but they are just reading out of the manual like I am.



This is the older style model 40 (5 years old) that has one bolt holding the head gate in position.



HELP!!!!



Frustrated in Denver...



TIA



ME
It's not so much a case of "You got what you paid for", as it is a matter of "You DIDN'T get what you DIDN'T pay for, and you're NOT going to get what you thought you were in the way of comfort". Borrowed from Heatboy.

Comments

  • Plumdog_2
    Plumdog_2 Member Posts: 873
    For wadisworth:

    Mark, I am familiar with that particular child. It looks to have been designed by a parts salesman and installed by a GC's brother in law. Pumps mounted with the shaft vertical, Aquastat screwed to the jacket, etc. If I recall, some ball valves were melted and don't shut off. But the real crux is the "hard lite-off." Before I disowned it, I found the barometric damper blade laying on the other side of the room, the lite-off shook the house!  I tamed it best I could, by putting the dimensions back where Riello recommended, and it seemed to work OK for about a year. Then the lockouts started. I referred the nice lady to Dennis, as he is the Buderus guy in these parts, and that's how you got shackled with the problem. I just don't have the expertise with those burners and don't want to waste the customers money. But for what it's worth, I have seen similar boilers with burners from the same gene pool, and they are quiet and behave nicely.
  • Mark Eatherton
    Mark Eatherton Member Posts: 5,839
    Thanks....

    I think...



    You wouldn't happen to remember what manifold pressure you were running do you?



    I think I may have a fuel pressure /supply issue.

    She said the dhw gets REAL hot. I can see why.



    It's ALL kinds of messed up.



    It's just going to take some time and money :-)



    Thanks for the work Plum.



    ME
    It's not so much a case of "You got what you paid for", as it is a matter of "You DIDN'T get what you DIDN'T pay for, and you're NOT going to get what you thought you were in the way of comfort". Borrowed from Heatboy.
  • Dan Foley
    Dan Foley Member Posts: 1,247
    F40

    Mark,

    Call me at the office tomorrow (703-339-8030).  I recall an ignition problem with a Buderus G-Series coupled with an F-40 we installed over 10 years ago.  We had hard light-offs and could not get it dialed in.  The first night, it blew the barometric off the flue pipe.  I will have to dig through our archived files to see how we resolved it. We still service this account so I know we fixed it somehow. 

      -DF
  • Mark Eatherton
    Mark Eatherton Member Posts: 5,839
    Thanks Dan...

    Will call you in a while.



    ME
    It's not so much a case of "You got what you paid for", as it is a matter of "You DIDN'T get what you DIDN'T pay for, and you're NOT going to get what you thought you were in the way of comfort". Borrowed from Heatboy.
  • tim smith
    tim smith Member Posts: 2,460
    edited November 2010
    Re: Buderus and Riello

    Mark, we have done a couple this year, conversions but to NG. We have not had any problems with the conversion. They were very smooth on light off and our combustion #s were real good.  Have you called buderus to make sure it is the correct burner in the beast. That will make a big difference. What are your combustion readings while running. Be interested what the co2 and stack temps are. If you are trying to dial burner down to far for that boiler, you may not be getting enough flow through the boiler, causing a little build up in combustion chamber before light off. Just a thought. I have talked to Riello in canada before and they were pretty good at the main office I think in toronto?  Ps, is that a G215 rather than a 205. I suspect you are just underfiring too much, not enough fire box pressure to get good comustion and flow through boiler. Tim

     By the Mark, have you had your hands on the new Knight beta boiler for awhile, I am intrigued. Tim
  • Mark Eatherton
    Mark Eatherton Member Posts: 5,839
    Tim,

    It was such a dirty burn when I got it to light and hold, that I didn't record the numbers, but I remember seeing O2 down around 1.5%, and CO2 was at 13 %, stack temp was around 300 degrees, and CO was 2500 ppm AF. Not really anything good about those numbers. I did pull the bypass segment baffle out due to condensation.



    To my knowledge, teh F40 is the only Riello burner approved for this boiler, and it is definitely G205/66-8 . I think it is a newer version of the 215. No andirons in the flue gas passages.



    As for the Knight, I am not beta testing for them. The WBN 50 I installed up at my cabin has the newer knob controller on it,but it is still Gianonni-ized. It is working fantastic tho. I am doing my DHW thru a flat plate heat exchanger. When I first hooked it up, the best it could do was produce a lot of luke warm water in the shower. Then I hooked up the drainwaste heat recovery unit (GFX) and now it generates hot enough water to fill the bathroom with steam. Won't fill the tub with real hot water, but no one ever baths up there anyway. Once I get my SDHW system installed, it will.



    Thanks for the info on the Riello.



    ME
    It's not so much a case of "You got what you paid for", as it is a matter of "You DIDN'T get what you DIDN'T pay for, and you're NOT going to get what you thought you were in the way of comfort". Borrowed from Heatboy.
  • Plumdog_2
    Plumdog_2 Member Posts: 873
    step-child

    Out of service for a while, chasing the Elusive Wapiti in their native habitat.

    I found notes on that job, indicating 1.3 WC manifold pressure, and less than 12% CO2. 40 ppm CO. But the hard lite-off was still there, but much reduced from before. I suspected the Solenoid/Regulator was messed up, but took too long to find the Riello Tech material. Piping and controls wrong. Replaced the damper that had blown apart. Ignitor position was about 90 degrees away from spec; other dimensions were close. Lite-off smooth when cold, hard when hot.

    I presume you have it humming the Star Spangled Banner by now. Hopefully they ponied up for some needed re-pipe on the DHW.

     
  • World Plumber
    World Plumber Member Posts: 389
    pressure

    I'm not familiar with the burner, but I noticed a manifold pressure of 1.3" WC. I remember being told to never go below 2" WC on natural. So wouldn't you want more on propane. I know that lazy gas movement on ribbon burners will give you a loud light off.

       Be careful with the propane it got my eye brows and half my hair once on one of those light offs. The customer told me it makes a noise when it lights. Good thing I was off to the side when it lit.

    MC
  • Ironman
    Ironman Member Posts: 6,868
    Buderus Underfiring

    I was curious if you'd gotten this "child" to behave. I don't recall every installing the Riello gas burner on one of these, but on oil you can't under fire it. Buderus wants a slight positive pressure over the fire on all their three pass boilers. Again, not sure about gas.
    Bob Boan
    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
  • Mark Eatherton
    Mark Eatherton Member Posts: 5,839
    Sorry Bob...

    This job didn't end well, and is probably headed for litigation. If and when it is settled, I will come back and divulge what happened.



    Sorry to keep everyone hanging in the wings.



    ME
    It's not so much a case of "You got what you paid for", as it is a matter of "You DIDN'T get what you DIDN'T pay for, and you're NOT going to get what you thought you were in the way of comfort". Borrowed from Heatboy.
This discussion has been closed.