Brazed copper ok for near piping?

Patrick McGrath

Hello all:

Just off the phone with a local company, as my boiler needs replacement.  A friend from church highly recommended them.  I have a guy I am comfortable working with, but I figured I'd give them a chance as well.

Anyway, the guy from the company said that they pipes the boiler with brazed copper.  I said that the use of copper was pretty much against everything that I have learned via this site and Dan's books.  He was adamant, and almost convincing in his argument.  Needless to say, he won't be coming to do an estimate.

Anyway, can you enlighten me and/or others on brazing vs soldering and if it makes a difference at all?  It's still copper, right?

Thanks!

clammy

Got that right

copper is copper ,weather it is soldered or brazed it is still copper definitly stay away from that guy he is not the one you want installing your steam boiler,what you are looking for is a guy who is going to do the math ,size your boiler correctly and pipe it in steel pipe with either cast iron or malable fitting,you are also looking for some one who is going to pipe your header according to the manafatures specs or better meaning using both risers into a larger then required header and tying your existing piping into  that header properly(getting rid of any bullheaded tees also)Also to have the properly sized equilizer and the correct hartford loop height and your returns checked (wet returns )and new properly sized vents to get the air out and the steam where it needs to go and do it's work , after all that there's always more room for improvement but getting the piping side done correctly is a big major thing ,the better the near boiler piping is the dryer the steam the better your system will perform and the less it will cost to run also don't forget to insulate all that near boiler piping with a mimiun of a 1 inch wall fiberglass insulation it is key and make sure they will skim your boiler to get all the crap out( and leave aess to the skim port for the future) ,It may be hard to find some who cares but be patient and search around i am sure you will find the right guy for the job and ask for photos and refferences form job he has done .just remenber that doing it as above is not some thing you will be getting from a low bidder i know i am never the low bidder and i see the nightmares that are created all to often and the money that was wasted in bad installs and all the issues they create.peace and good luck clammy

BobC

My 2 cents

I'm certaintly no expert but the main problem seems to be the differing rates of expansion between cat iron and copper. The copper is going to expand a lot more and if there are two risers coming off a boiler this can put severe stress on the boiler sections. Also the inability of brazed joint to move like a threaded joint is another issue.



Now if a boiler had just one riser the expansion difference would be a lot less harsh but the inability of the joints to move would still be a concern. The strength of a brazed copper joint shouldn't be an issue.



it costs more to use threaded steel pipe but it's long history of success in steam systems is compelling.



Bob

TomM

copper?

my near boiler piping is in copper.  It's just reached its 20th anniversary.  It's only had to be resoldered 3 or 4 or 5 times, and it only is out of square by about 3 inches.  Can't see it too good in the pic but its a lovely candidate for a Strictly Steam Ugly Competition.  Can we win a pipe threader?

Jamie Hall

Copper might work.

I refuse to say that it won't.  I also certainly can't recommend it; the money saved just isn't worth the risk.



The problem is, as noted, expansion.  A copper header will expand a lot more than the cast iron boiler.  If there is only one riser, this isn't a problem for the boiler.  If there are two (or more!) risers, unless there is provision for that expansion to occur without putting stress on the boiler, you almost certainly will have a problem.  There are fancy pipe layouts which can substantially reduce the stress (for instance, a drop header with really long legs -- at least 10 pipe diameters -- helps a lot).  But why?  It isn't that hard to thread a pipe, and the fittings available, while not as good as they once were, are good, so why not do it right in the first place?  Besides, screwing on a fitting poses no fire hazard!  Soldering or brazing does -- in the building I supervise, no one -- like No One -- is allowed to do hot work unless there is a fire team standing by at all times.