Air vent jetting out water

oe

I live on the top floor of a 6 floor pre-war building. We have cast iron radiators recessed into the wall (one pipe steam), and I have one radiator that I have a lot of problems with. This radiator for a bedroom (13'x'20') is about 4 feet in length. I have tried many different air vents (1'8" straight connector) all with mixed results. These are all bought from Home Depot, where I don't have much of a selection. The latest one I installed is a maid-o-mist, D type, and while it works great and is mostly quiet daytime, it goes insane at 5am everyday and starts squirting water out at high speed. Since the water hits the metal enclosure, it makes for a real loud wakeup experience. Again, this is only one time during the day and all other heating cycles throughout the day is just fine. At the moment, I set an alarm clock for 4:55, close the radiator valve for 15 mins, and open it (fully) again, and try to get a bit more sleep.



I've tried other vents and while they don't have the 5am problem, they make a lot of hiss throughout the day and night.



I'm guessing that since I'm at the end of the line, and neighbors in my line do not have their radiators fully opened or at all, that this radiator is stuck releasing all the air out of this line.



Can someone recommend a good brand/model of air valve (hopefully adjustable, but not a requirement) that is both very quiet, and can withstand whatever happens at 5am in our building? I see a lot of mention of gorton valvles on this wonderful site, I'd just like a second opinion.



Thank you in advance

Dave in QCA

Straight pattern vent?

If your vent screws into the side the radiator, you need an angle pattern vent.  I am putting a link here to maid-o-mist.  http://www.maid-o-mist.com/jacobus.html  

The images of the vents show the orientation that they are to be installed.  Straight pattern vents install with the pipe threads pointing down.   Angle vents install with the pipe threads pointing to the side.   This should allow any cold condensation to properly drain out of the vent body.  It should be dry when steam is coming up, and its job is to let the air out.  When the temperature of steam arrives, it will close based on temperature.  Also, if there is water of condensation present, this vent also features a float mechanism that will close and prevent water escape.  Of course, the float can't work if it's laying on it side, and the water can't drain out if it's laying on its side.

Unless I misunderstood your description, sounds like all you need to do is get a D style angle vent.  Maid-o-Mist should work fine for you.   While they are not one of the favorites on here, the ones I have observed worked just fine.

You can also look at http://www.pexsupply.com/Air-Valves-300000 pex supply.  They have both the Gorton and the Maid-O-Mist valves.  They look identical, their model numbers match up and each model number is rated the same.  So, the model D that you have used is probably the fastest radiator vent on the market.  That's a good thing for a large radiator at the end of the line.  You just need to get an angle pattern vent.

jpf321

pics please

please post pics of your trouble radiator

Long Beach Ed

Water Everywhere?

Let's assume that you have the vent standing straight up.  Assuming that it is properly oriented:



Your vent is spitting water because it is venting too fast.  The hole in it is too large. 



Your radiator is making the most condensate (condensing the most steam into water) when it is coldest and being supplied for the longest time with the most steam.  This is usually when recovering from setback first thing on a chilly morning.   The large-sized vent opening is letting this happen so fast that the velocity of the incoming steam is stopping all the water from getting out of the radiator.  So the water fills the radiator and spits out of the vent. 



First, make sure the radiator valve is fully open (should be counter clockwise).  A half-closed valve on a one-pipe system will also slow the condensate flow.  



Throw out the Chinese Home Depot vents.  Order a slower Gorton vent (perhaps start with a #5).   They come sized smallest to largest, 4, 5, 6, C & D.



This will solve your problem. 

oe

Thanks

I thought I mentioned in my original post that it is a straight connector vent. I made sure that the radiator is also sloping down towards the main pipe/valve.



Thank you very much Long Beach Ed. It didn't occur to me that the bigger size vent opening could lead to this. I will start out with a #5 like you said and try out. Would you recommend Gorton over Maid-o-Mist or Hoffman?



Thanks

Dave in QCA

yes, you said straight vent

Straight vent won't work.  You need and angle vent.  Gorton is the favored vent on this wall.  Hoffman 1A is a good vent too, you can adjust the venting rated on it.



Make sure you follow up and let us know how this works out.

jpf321

no pic...

not enough info .. we don't know, maybe his rad requires a straight .. and not an angle .. hence my request for a pic which has not yet been posted.



O.E. please post a pic.

oe

Pic

Here's a picture of the vent.



I have removed the maid-o-mist and replaced with a hoffman (I don't know the vent size unfortunately) that I got from a local heating supply store. They didn't have much of a selection but at this point, I'm just trying to see if anything will work.



I will order a gorton #5 but it might not fit since I don't have much clearance to actually turn it and thread it. I need to see specs on it to see how big it is. I can do with about a 2 1/4" diameter (size of the maid-o-mist that barely fit) Removing the radiator just to install the vent and put it back in is out of the question.



If the gorton valve doesn't fit, I have the proper nipples and angle couplers to get the vent a bit further down the vent. Is that advisable? As long as I angle it so that water drains fine, I'm thinking it would be ok, but just double checking to see if there's a problem with the vent not being at the end of the radiator (but a few inches in, and a couple of inches up. If I move it, I can also do angle connector vents.

Dave in QCA

You have a Finned Tube Convector

Your application requires the straight pattern.  Since the actual air volume in this type of convector is very small, there is not as much need for a high capacity vent.  Given some of the other advice that you might be vent too fast, I would leave this vent in place for a few days and see how it works. 

There are some other piping setups that can help eliminate the water from reaching the vent, but why don't you give this one a try first. 

Hoffman makes quality products.  This model is generally considered to slow for most cast iron radiation, but as I said before, the amount of air in your convector is much less than a cast iron radiator.

oe

Thanks

Thanks for letting me know the correct name. I will keep this and see how it goes.

bostonapt

similar problem

It sounds like I am having a similar problem as the poster.  I live on the top floor of a 3 story building that was most likely made around 1900. 



I see that piece on the top that is suppose to keep the water from coming out is a Vent-Rite #31 steam vent.  As you can see from the picture it is connected to a 1-5 valve.  Basically the higher the number the more flow that is allowed. 



Recently the one in the bathroom, has started spewing water all over the wall(that is the one that has the picture attached).  While some of the ones in some of the other rooms simply make a lot of noise.  Can I safely asume that it is the Vent-Rite is broken and simply needs to be replaced with a new one.  Is it as easy a unscrewing the old one and screwing the new one on?  I know better then to use plumbers tape because of the high temperatures, but are there any precautions to make sure that it is a tight seal. 

BobC

air valve

Air vents don't last forever and yours may have seen better days. Buy a replacement vent and some teflon tape to seal the threads with. Just unscrew the old one and thread on the replacement - when the radiator is not under ant steam pressure. Buy the same brand or another name brand (Hoffman, Gorton). Be warned that Home Depot usually only has the cheap chinese valves which are of questionable quality, their ok in a pinch but not for the long term.



If you boil the old vent in vinegar for 30-60 minuts you may be able to fix it but don't be surprised if the chrome plating goes away along with the lime deposits that are probably preventing it from closing all the way.



Bob

bostonapt

water

So I have replaced the vent-rites with brand new ones.  I still have water spraying when the air comes out.  Any ideas on how to stop the water from coming out?

BobC

Vent spraying water

You have to check the piping and the radiator for the correct slope so the condensing steam can flow back to the boiler. You may have water pooling in a pipe or radiator.



What pressure is the boiler running at? You stated that all the vents are noisy. The pressure should be below 2PSI when the boiler shuts off. Excess pressure just makes everything worse.



Is that new radiator vent adjustable (maybe a Ventrite No. 1?)? Try turning it down to slow the radiators venting.



What kind of main vents do you have and are they working? With steam you want to vent the mains quickly and the radiators more slowly.



Bob

Jean-David Beyer

Excess pressure just makes everything worse.

Reminds me of Murphy's Law of Thermodynamics: Things get worse under pressure.

joplan

joplan

THANK YOU. I have a very old steam heating system - 100 yr old house. I replaced some ancient angle vents with new Vent-Rite #1 angle vents yesterday. All was working well yesterday and I had them all wide open as I had not started balancing the system yet. I came home tonight and two radiators that never had problems before were venting a straight stream of water about 9 inches high, then sputtering and doing it again. I turned the setting from 8 (full open) to 5 after reading this article. Spewing water stopped - thank heavens. I am thinking that many radiators can not handle the fast venting of the Vent-Rites full open. Now I will have to watch and see what happens when they kick in tomorrow at 5AM.

jpf321

there isn't supposed...

to be that much available water near the vent....you may have other issues...please post pics of the troubled radiators...include the entire radiator vent and supply valve on the picture..take the pictures far enough to see all parts. make sure your supply valve is fully open.

nicholas bonham-carter

old wasteful faithful

all these descriptions of fountains of rusty water are symptoms of excessive pressure,and inadequate main line venting. this is the way for the system to waste perhaps a third of its fuel! are you a tenant, or a condo owner?

who could you talk to about these wasteful problems? please direct him here so that he may become better informed. point out that if the owners have to pay very high fuel bills, they will have no money left over for him!

when you are 5-7 floors above the boiler, and have water squirting out of the vents, i would say that curing these symptoms of neglect will be virtually impossible from your end. only some work in the boiler room will be effective.i don't know the footprint of your building, but i will guess that these corrections would be paid back with lower fuel bills this winter.

think of this wasted fuel as something which could have been used by someone out of work, and here some super just pisses it away, either through ignorance, or malice towards his employers! it just makes me boil!--nbc