ID'd the problem LWCO Feeder Problem from Lost Art book

acl10

I beleive that I have identified my problem. I have a LWCO 67 and a Unimatch Water feeder. The boiler floods before the condensate returns. See attachmet where Dan explains the problem. I have a 67 and I do not have place for another Probe feeder. I also would rather not spend money to have it changed. Is there any way to work with the combination I have and keep the boiler from flooding. Would changing the switch on the unimatch to 2 help?

Thank You for replying

acl10

see page 2

See page 2

acl10

LWCO Instructions

LWCO Instructions

acl10

LWCO Instructions

LWCO Instructions

jpf321

glad ...

glad you figured it out .. please try to not make new threads/topics for the same discussion, simply reply to yourself in the original thread. 

jpf321

quite possibly

quite possibly changing the switch might help .. what is it set at now?



the switch is simply setting a delay between the LWCO shuts down the burner and when the water feeder starts sending water. if you feel that your returns are very slow, but the water eventually gets back .. then a longer delay should help a little ..



the type of LWCO you have should make no difference .. in fact the UniMatch feeder (page 7) has diagram for the MM67 right there .. the LWCO is simply an on/off switch .. the UniMatch setting switch determines what to do (how long before I do something) when the LWCO (any LWCO) switches (wakes up the autofeeder and starts the countdown clock).

acl10

Thank You

Thank You

acl10

Does the circulator cuse a need for more water?

Would  the fact that I have a closed loop circulator system for the basement going through the same boiler causes the boiler to need more water?

jpf321

most common reasons to need water....

The following are the most commons reasons to LOSE WATER.

leaking return

leaking rad vents

leaking boiler (perhaps above the waterline or into the combustion chamber)

LWCO blowdowns

slight water loss due to standing evaporation



Other people may think of more reasons, but this is about it.



So, no, your circulator per se should not cause water loss.

acl10

I mean that the boiler needs to be filled higher

I mean that the boiler needs to be filled higher because of the circulator 

jpf321

probably not...depends

i guess it depends where you are taking/returning the water from to on your circulating loop.. the circulating loop should be filled already .. it doesn't "steal" water from the boiler into an empty .. it only circulates water that is cool in the pipe exchanging it with water that is hot from the boiler .. it's an even exchange.



however, if you are taking it from a tapping above the boiler waterline then you may need to fill higher .. but it's not a common arrangement to be piped that way.

acl10

Unimatch set on 3 seems to be working

Unimatch set on 3 seems to be working. I chaged the washer to the 1 gal hole and set it on 3 which gives it a 90 second delay. I drained the excess water from the boiler and now it only fills to a 3rd to half the glass and it stopped banging. I put down the pressure to as low as it would go.

acl10

Condensate question

Why does it take so long for the condensate to return to the boiler? I do not have any leaks. The underground pipes were changed. The pipes are hot and seem full of water so why does it take so long. In the meantime the water feeder feeds new water and the boiler overfills??

jpf321

i think ...

it could be several things .. i'm going to try to be comprehensive in the list.



lack of operating pressure

lack of "A" dimension

an actual clog somewhere/sludge

an actual leak somewhere (can you see all your return pipes now? were they examined for leaks after they were installed?)

a gifford loop piped too high based on "A" dimension

a check value improperly installed

a return valve not fully opened

faulty trap(s) along the return

incorrect pipe size (too small?)

too much steam velocity in a counterflow? (might also lead to banging)



anything else anyone can think of?

you can install a condensate return pump (although rare fore residential I think)

acl10

After taking apart the return I see that the return is slow. Would snaink it out help? Or do I need a new return.

The return is slow and rusted inside. Would snaiking it out help? Or do I need a new return. Someone suggested I use copper for the return.

Also do these liquid bolier cleaners work and are the safe for the boiler? Which brand is the best?

jpf321

new? copper?

i was under the impression that your return was new .. you said that your "underground pipes" were replaced .. anyhow ...



yes there are ways to chunk out that gunk at least in the meantime .. i think there is an article off-wall somewhere that discusses different ways people have used to clean returns ..



if you can afford it right now .. it may be just easier to replace the returns (in black pipe) and not have to worry about them for about 50years



if you can do them in copper (Type L or K if I recall correctly) that's a headache you won't have again for 100yrs+ .. i think you have to get dielectric fittings where you join the copper with the iron pipe ..



most people discourage adding chemicals to the boiler ... others may have other thoughts on this.

nicholas bonham-carter

slow return

why not close the valve to the feeder and see if the water level drops over a few days?

if there are any horizontal pipes in the return piping, which are slightly above the level of the waterline; then water can be "hidden" in them as pressure rises in the boiler. when the boiler is at rest, the "hidden" water comes back.

this situation stymied us for months, until we discovered the cause, and re-piped the returns down to the floor.--nbc

acl10

Snaked out return

I snaked out the returns and got out alot of junk. The return seems to be working better but the water feeder is still filling up the boiler before the return has a chance to refill the boiler.

jpf321

i found the article ...

perhaps you didn't have a chance to search for the article I referenced above .. here it is .. http://www.heatinghelp.com/article/11/Hot-Tech-Tips/145/How-to-Flush-the-Return-Lines-on-an-Old-Steam-System

Sil

I had the same issue as you (slow return causing overfill)

I replaced the whole return... it was about $100 of black pipe and fittings... about a day of work...



problem solved

acl10

I bought the Hydro and set it at 10 min. So far so good. I snaked out my returns as well.

I bought the Hydro  VXT -24 Water feeder and set it at 10 min. So far so good. I snaked out my returns as well.