so long fitzy ... hello slantie

jpf321

k-wool GOOD .. heat loss BAD ... updated IR pics!

I spent the day re-insulating my steamer .. only this time I had access to K-Wool .. man is this stuff cool .. literally ..



I had to strip the entire jacket (er... I mean COAT) off to do it right .. and that required some creative tin-snipping since it was not my intention to un-trim the boiler. but she went back together pretty well.



basically K-wool comes in a 25ft roll of 1.5" thick by 4" wide .. you can see some if you scroll down here: http://is.gd/gVceq .. it's a ceramic based batting like fiberglass only denser and itchier (datasheet: http://is.gd/gVf6W) . I needed about 55ft (2 and a bit rolls) to fully insulate the little guy...there is very little waste ..you can always find a place to stick a remnant.



oh .. and the stack temp went up another 50-60dF



I've posted some pics of the insulation job .. http://is.gd/gqumT



as well as some very cool IR pics .. and a couple of collages that show IR without K-Wool (and time of fire) and WITH K-wool and time of fire... http://is.gd/gOG6J



        



enjoy!

jpf321

finishing touches ....

Well it's been a long time coming .. but today I put some finishing touches on my boiler.



I finished out the p-trol and vaporstat control trees .. all brass .. the vaportstat tree has an isolation value in case I want to raise pressure above vaporstat levels. additionally, it has a valve which will allow me to break pigtail vacuum after the boiler cools.



I made a funnel/flush port from the tapping for the pressure relief valve. This will allow me to add chemicals if desired, or to connect a hose and flush out the boiler from above if desired.



i have a brass porous snubber on order, I would have liked to have had it today .. oh well.



I installed a Swiss Made, 0.000gal accurate Oil Flow Meter which was salvaged from a friend's junk pile. It has a Qmin of 0.25gph. I've uploaded a video of it running for 2mins (http://is.gd/gZCyd) .. without watching, can anyone guess how much fuel I pull from my tank in 2mins?



Oh and of course I uploaded pictures of the controls trees, funnel/flush setup and fuel meter. http://is.gd/gqumT



Lastly, I downfired my burner to the bottom of it's scale .. my air shutter is between 0-1 .. I have what I consider great combustion and stack temp. (1.6%O2, 14.3%CO2, 398ppmCO, 8%X-Air, Gas Temp NET: 364 http://is.gd/gZzxh) ... I'm burning at almost 50% of the factory set-up firing, which I attribute almost entirely from the K-Wool insulation.



If I had to do it all over again, I'd have gotten an Intrepid TR-40 (1-size-up) with a Riello 40/F3 (1-size-down) burner... there's always next year ;-)

Mike Kusiak_2

Combustion numbers

You might post those numbers on the oil heating section of the forum and see what the oil guys think. To me, the CO reading is very high, and the O2 level is low. If you increased the air slightly, your CO readings would drop dramatically. At 8% excess air, you are really on the edge.



http://www.testo.us/portal/embedded/Sites/USA/MainNavigation/ApplicationInformation/HVAC_Refrigeration/Refrigeration/CombustionGuide.pdf

jpf321

thanks mike ....

i did notice smoke with last night's setup .. i have made a slight adjustment and eliminated the smoke .. 2.4%O2, 13.7%CO2, 117ppmCO, 12%X-Air, Gas Temp NET: 404

Mark N

Would like to know

JP does adding all that extra insulation affect your warranty in any way? Also how long does it take to get steam to the main vents, last rad on the system? How long does it run when just maintaining temp? How do these numbers compare to your old boiler?



Mark

jpf321

I'm working on..

the data aspects. empirically, I burn 0.62 gph rather than 1.8+ from old boiler. but I run longer. I'll try to look at some data later this morning. I have been collecting it. but I've also been tweaking and tuning. I'm also adding a few TRVs today since I seem to be undersized but not necessarily underfired. but I do have a warm rom our two that I can throttle back



I don't know if adding insulation affects warranty. I'll visit john@SF sometime this week and ask.

Mark N

Seems low

I'm not sure but .62gph seems low to handle and EDR of 371sqft. plus hot water through your tankless coil. If someone takes a shower when your making steam the tankless may draw enough to inhibit the boilers ability to make steam. It is still somewhat mild now bbut in the middle of winter this could lead to some serious discomfort.



Mark

jpf321

thanks mark...

for pushing me on the numbers .. after two soot brush/vacs, quite a bit of advice and a new smoke pull .. i have settled into the following figures. COppm: 5 CO2% 12.5 O2: 3.9 XS-Air: 22%  Gross Eff: 85.5% Temp NET: 355 Smoke=0 Nozz: 0.65x70b @ 175psi Head=0 Air=2 ...



you were right, I was waaay off the other day.



as soon as I cleaned the soot off from my blunder, my stack temp dropped quite a bit...showing the importance of a clean boiler for heat transfer.

Mike Kusiak_2

Combustion numbers

Those readings look much better. I wondered about your relatively high stack temp and had a feeling it might have sooted up from the previous settings. Glad to see you have is sorted out.

Ex Maine Doug

This winter

you are going to be warm and toasty but way bored when all you have to do is collect numbers for system performance stats. ;-}

jpf321

i hope so...

and count my saved dollars ?

crash2009

Bored or Boring

I'd rather be bored than boring.  I have been watching the "so long fitzy...hello slantie" show since it began October 29, 2010.  There has always been something new to read about, or a new picture.  Admittedly, a lot of the conversation is over my head, but then again, less than a year ago, I didn't know what a rad vent was, let alone what to do with it.  JPF keep up the great work helping the rest of us understand how things work. 

jpf321

thanks crash

thanks for following along .. i've tried to get it all right .. as I found out today, my wiring is still a bit off .. nothing critical but my Riello Air Shutter doesn't close ..

jpf321

Riello with TT onboard

as it turns out, Riello has a primary controller which has an onboard

24V TT (http://is.gd/h9Zph) .. for some reason, this is not how SlantFin

sends out the Riello. If they had, things would be alot easier.I'm trying to find out if Riello would care to swap my primary for a TT one .. stay tuned. 

jpf321

a few notes ...

yesterday, i decided to go back to my original "factory" nozzle size and firing rate. 0.85x70degB @ 160psi (1.08gph effective). my NET stack is around 420degF vs. 360 at my lower firing rate (0.65x70degB @ 175 (0.82gph effective)) ... although honestly, i may go back to a happy medium of 0.75x70degB and close down the turbulator a bit...this firing rate is really quite loud .. i think that closing down the turbulator really quiets the fire. i want to aim for the same stack temp only with a bit less HEAD. i think I can do it.



i'm happy to report that my steam seems much more full .. that is, I was able to raise my t-stat 1degF in just over 30mins.



i realize now that my earlier worries about the sizing may have been unfounded possibly because.

 1) my water was quite dirty early on, and has now cleaned up substantially

 2) I sooted up my boiler pretty good at some point

 3) my new TRVs in the bedrooms, kitchen and mudroom may be doing their job and shedding load when the room is already at temp.



i want to decrease my venting on some of my near-t-stat rads (LR couch, LR Desk and DiningRoom) I think they all have Gorton 6s right now, i'm going to try 5s. My t-stat satisfied before I get a good load of heat up to 3rd floor.



my wiring is still awry .. my electronic air shutter (EAS) doesn't close .. i have to delve into the wiring again, or just leave it as is since i've heard of some problems with the Riello EAS. (boy I wish I had the Riello with TT onboard control box) .. but having the EAS closed would keep the boiler a bit warmer longer rather than having an open draft right through the combustion chamber. (another reason to close down the turbulator perhaps)



I'm blowing in some more cellulose next week...today I swiss-cheesed my bedroom with holes through the plaster/lathe .. fun fun .. (true brick house, easier done from inside) the heatloss from the room that I did earlier in the month was significantly decreased .. in fact her room kept getting warmer and warmer with each heating cycle, in this sense, the TRV there is wonderful. my interior wall temps ranged from 73degF in her room to 63degF in the room just below her's (next on my list obviously)



i ordered up a new lascar datalogger to replace the defective FAR RAD unit...then I am going to RMA the defective unit and they will either fix it or send me a new one .. they have been very helpful and responsive, and I really appreciate that.



sorry, no new pics today .. just a few follow-up notes about the state of the system as I have been mostly hands off the last few days.

jpf321

a few notes on current operating status...

on these current cold NYC days (in the low-20's with winds) ..my S/F TR-30 (with coil) firing factory specs (1.08gph) with a couple of bedroom TRVs in place (most set at about 69degF Macon setting #5ish) as well as Foyer and Kitchen TRVs to shed load (if possible/appropriate) is heating the house just fine. TRV's are almost all vented with Gorton C regardless of rad size (my goal is to heat room with TRV and have TRV shutdown)



pretty much I come up to 7oz pretty quickly after Main Vents Close (8mins from t-stat call) and then hover right there @ 7oz with no burner modulation for almost the entire cycle (i think my v-stat is set at around 7-9oz)... sometimes I see a momentary pressure drop mid-cycle, likely a TRV has just opened, or perhaps someone just ran some DHW .. this last cycle I only cycled on pressure once towards the very end.



the t-stat is a constant 69degF (turned down recently from 70degF) with no setbacks and a 0.5deg swing.



the system is quiet as a mouse .. no hissing from vents. sometimes (once every 5th cycle perhaps) i get a bang which i attribute to either 1) a TRV with faulty vacuum breaker (i know which one) opening up mid-cycle and releasing held rad water into horizontal runout or 2) gifford loop if I shutdown on pressure, depending on where in the system the bang is heard.



losing about 1/8th inch of water every 4-5days. all returns are above ground no visible leaks in system. #67 LWCO blowdown requires quite a bit of water loss



system water (glass pipe and sight gauge) is crystal clean except for some settled rust particles in glass pipe. I'm due for a skim (why not, it's on the frequently suggested solution list)



i still haven't corrected my wiring to operate the Riello Electronic Air Shutter (currently always open) .. it's on the list. After my meeting with SlantFin, they posted online their latest and greatest I&O which contains the correct wiring diagram for Riello Steam Tankless #67.



my combustion numbers are consistent. after installing my Itsa Oil Meter on 11/12/2010 I have burned as of current time 171.25gals of #2 oil .. HDD since 11/13/2010 = 652.7 so that works out to 0.26gal/HDD .. and that also means that heating season is about 1/7th over since our average HDD per season is about 4400 HDD here in NYC. FYI.. for those following along at home .. I am on track to consume almost exactly the same amount of fuel as last year..1100gals (although I don't have pre/post-main vent data..i installed main vents by this time last year) However, 1) I don't have to fear my boiler is going fail on the coldest night of the year and 2) I have learned a tremendous amount and 3) I have made new friends and 4) I have something to talk about at parties and 5) the home resale value has increased. The money spent is equivalent to a couple of college courses and I have enjoyed it more than college. Time get new windows :-)



my cycle lengths are consistent but frequency of cycles change depending on HDD (greater HDD greater building Heat Loss based on delta-T)



I haven't been breaking my v-stat pigtail/0-20oz gauge vacuum manually, and the 0-20 seems to find 0 eventually. lastly, my snubber is snubbing.



i'll post some new data charts tomorrow. over here... http://www.heatinghelp.com/forum-thread/132987/let-the-data-begin

Dave in QCA

Replacement windows? Please say it ain't so!

Before you run out and buy replacement windows, you need to do some research.  Actually, I can tell that you are the type of person who researches everything.  Replacment windows are not all they are cracked up to be, and often never provide a reasonable payback.  There are other options that are better.  See this link,  http://renovatedsm.com/book/export/html/376