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Buderus

Ifollowinstructions
Ifollowinstructions Member Posts: 27
in THE MAIN WALL
I installed a Buderus GB 142 and ran the pvc venting through a 2 car garage with insulation on the pvc. It dos not say in the Buderus manual if this can be done with this type of boiler.  I was told by the rep this is fine. The local plumbing inspector wants confirmation.  I called Buderus and they tell me to follow the NFPA fire code.  This is not manufacturers instructions!  Anybody got any ideas,  (The best boiler in the world ) I should bring boiler to New hampshire and smash it with a sledge hammer in front of their loading dock and put it on utube. 



Norm

Comments

  • CMadatMe
    CMadatMe Member Posts: 3,086
    Why Would You Insulate

    The vent pipe? It's a condensing boiler and should be pitched back to it!

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  • Ifollowinstructions
    Ifollowinstructions Member Posts: 27
    Buderus

    The condensate will freeze in the winter time.
  • CMadatMe
    CMadatMe Member Posts: 3,086
    edited October 2010
    Why?

    Why would it freeze if it's pitched back like it should be. The condensate would do it's job and run back to the boiler. I know the answer...Your venting PVC and they are afraid you may get some sagging. Use a vent pipe that is rated as a vent pipe and carries a warranty....  www.centrotherm.us.com

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  • Ironman
    Ironman Member Posts: 7,441
    edited October 2010
    2 Different Issues

    Issue #1.  I understand why you would need to wrap the vent to prevent freezing.



    Issue #2.  The response from Buderus seems to be more directed at fire protection because you're passing thru a garage.



    At any rate, all manufacturer's instructions say that state and local codes take precedent over them.



     Why are you so mad at Buderus? How could they have foreseen that you would have installed the boiler this way and that the inspector would take issue with it? If the instructions did not address this, you should have consulted the inspector and Buderus before installing.



    I would suggest that you or your rep. go further upstairs at Buderus and ask for something in writing to satisfy the inspector.
    Bob Boan
    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
  • CMadatMe
    CMadatMe Member Posts: 3,086
    I would Suggest

    That you ask Buderus for their testing on PVC as a vent material. The inspectors know that PVC is not and I repeat not approved for venting by the ASTM they list in their manual. It's not about fire. I can count tens of thousands of jobs that have insulation on domestic plumbing pipe that are insulated in garages.



    The inspector is actually protecting you from a potential venting problem. That problem being that PVC IS NOT a VENT PIPE!

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  • Ifollowinstructions
    Ifollowinstructions Member Posts: 27
    Buderus

    I live in MA. Toughest code in USA.  Manufacturers instructions is president over local code.  Buderus has no solution.  I am looking for a solutions not problems.
  • CMadatMe
    CMadatMe Member Posts: 3,086
    edited October 2010
    Get Rid of the PVC

    Get rid of the PVC and the insulation and vent with a vent pipe. Is the inspector telling you that you can't run the PVC or add the insulation? PVC begins to degrade at about 160 degrees. I was just in a meeting today talking about Mass code. We have stores there and venting PVC is going to be an upcoming issue. Seems like you have already felt it.

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  • Ifollowinstructions
    Ifollowinstructions Member Posts: 27
    Buderus

    The problem is not pvc pipe, its the fact it runs through a garage that is not heated. Zero clearance to combustibles is good with this boiler.  Buderus should have a answer to this problem!  At this time what is the point of installing these boilers if we cant get a answer from the people that make them.   
  • Slimpickins
    Slimpickins Member Posts: 347
    Box it in

    I had to vent through a garage once and local code required me to frame around it and sheet rock it. In another county is was ok to have it exposed. With local codes, when in doubt, always best to get an answer before starting the job.
  • CMadatMe
    CMadatMe Member Posts: 3,086
    What is The Inspector

    Saying your have to do? You are not being specific. I will state that Mass may be the first state that outlaws PVC as a vent material. Maybe sooner than we think.

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  • shawn laverty
    shawn laverty Member Posts: 42
    vent pipe

    Just wondering what wonderful town in mass. this is in. If this is an issue with it freezing why not install a hydronic modine heater and set it to 40 degree. I had this problem with a lochinvar boiler venting and this is what i got from a response. The boiler flue extends through the unheated storage space

    before it terminates to the exterior. To prevent excessive condensation the

    manufacturer recommends to insulate the flue. However, per manufacturer’s

    installation instructions insulation should not be used on PVC and CPVC venting

    materials. So, the boiler flue exhaust vent material shall be AL29C.
  • shawn laverty
    shawn laverty Member Posts: 42
    vent pipe

    Just wondering what wonderful town in mass. this is in. If this is an issue with it freezing why not install a hydronic modine heater and set it to 40 degree. I had this problem with a lochinvar boiler venting and this is what i got from a response. The boiler flue extends through the unheated storage space

    before it terminates to the exterior. To prevent excessive condensation the

    manufacturer recommends to insulate the flue. However, per manufacturer’s

    installation instructions insulation should not be used on PVC and CPVC venting

    materials. So, the boiler flue exhaust vent material shall be AL29C.
  • Ironman
    Ironman Member Posts: 7,441
    edited October 2010
    I May Be Able To Help...

    If the inspector is wanting Buderus to certify that wrapping the flue  in the un-heated garage is sufficient to prevent the condensate from freezing in the pipe. I'm still not sure from your posts if that is the issue. If so, here is what you need:



    Here is Buderus' tech. bulletin for venting thru an unconditioned space.
    Bob Boan
    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
  • Ifollowinstructions
    Ifollowinstructions Member Posts: 27
    follow up

    Thanks!  All figured out in a weekend, you can't beat The Wall. Hopefully this will do it. It's a pity they don't have this in the boiler manual.  Old man/woman  winter will figure the rest out.
  • HDE_2
    HDE_2 Member Posts: 140
    edited October 2010
    Oh really

    PVC has been used as a venting material on furnaces since 1983, water heaters since 1986, overseas doesn't use PVC for plumbing so not available, ASTM only applies to plumbing, so ban it for venting? Not likely



    You sound like a distributor or rep that has no product that vents with PVC
  • CMadatMe
    CMadatMe Member Posts: 3,086
    When a Boiler Manufacturer

    Can produce testing for me that states PVC can handle flue gas temps up to 230 degrees I will be more than happy to sell it. In the meantime I'll stick with I-PEX CPVC and Coaxial Vent Pipe.



    They both are an easy sell because they are rated as a VENT PIPE!  Sit down with a consumer and explain to them that there is no testing on PVC as a vent pipe and that the ASTM rating listed has nothing to do with venting  but these two other types of venting material are rated. Also let them know that the boiler manufacuturer that states you can use PVC as a vent pipe won't produce any testing data to you. Which do you think they want?



    PVC is a cheap way to keep the cost of an already expensive piece of equipment down and that's the real truth as to why boiler manufaucturers use it as a vent pipe.

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