design temp in Alta, Utah?

Bob Bona_4

I was wondering if anyone out west there (M.E.?) has a handle on design temps/climate in Alta, Utah. ASHRAE *says* 5 degrees, but I'm seeing quite a range from the research so far.

I'm doing a Warmboard/Runtal panel design project for a client reno'ing a condo out there. TIA!

Unknown

Alta

Sorry I can't help you with a figure for Alta.  Just thought I should mention that though it's close by, don't use the temp figure for Salt Lake. Alta is above Salt Lake in the mountains at the bottom of a narrow box canyon with high mountains on both sides so it gets quite a bit colder than Salt Lake. If you have figures for other places in the area you might want to check the figures for Park City as that would be more comparable to Alta than Salt Lake and even then I'd knock off a degree or so more for Alta as it doesn't get any sun until the afternoon and stays cooler through the day.  The figure I've seen for Salt Lake is 8 degrees so I would consider 5 degrees maybe a bit optimistic.

- Rod

Timco

design temp

I will ask a few of my suppliers tomorrow. I am in SLC, and have heard 5-8 for us, but never set an ODR in Alta. It is WAY up the canyon, much higher than us with snow well into summer. Gas book shows a different specific gravity for them as well. Just sent off a text and an email...



If you need any recommendations for eats or lodging, let me know!



Tim

Bob Bona_4

thanks for

the great info guys..canyons don't exist here in CT . The client said today they see 0, to minus often enough.

Tim, do you think the high altitude will be a consideration in choosing either a TT Solo 110 or a Vitodens?



  

Timco

Degree calc

http://www.degreedays.net/



Either should dial in great. Do you have a supplier? I am sure I will hear back tomorrow from a couple reps. Please feel free to email me direct at timco@xmission.com with any needs for parts suppliers.

Bob Bona_4

thanks

At this point, I am the designer, possibly going out to inspect progress. From what the client is telling me, they have a local talent, but unfamiliar/uncomfortable with the system components and anticipated multi temp set up. Wouldn't be a stretch to imagine this turning into packing my tool bag and spending a few weeks there

I have one eye towards spec'ing out homogenous equipment for that region too, for ease of service, and ease of mind!

I'll send you an email soon, Tim, once I pull together the spec, to see who you use out there for suppliers. Thanks again!

hot_rod

Gas fired

I lived and worked up there in the late 70's. back then it was LP or electric. i believe they finally ran gas up the canyon. These days it is often warmer up the canyons in the winter when the inversions set in Sunny, warm, blue sky days at the ski areas while the valley is under a layer of dark haze.



Consider some solar assist, also. plenty of sunshine at those high elevations.



I don't remember many days in the single digits or below in the years I lived there. I thing a 0 design would be fine. Is it a vacation home, or all year round?



hr

Nick W

A new weather station in Alta

reports 7 days below zero this past winter, with the low being -10° F.

Paul Fredricks_3

Bob

Be sure to get the info on when you and I can use the condo and ski Alta!

Paul Fredricks_3

Bob

Be sure to get the info on when you and I can use the condo and ski Alta!

Bob Bona_4

good info

Thank you HR, pretty sure it's a ski home, they have a home in Newport RI for summering. Good info Nick, and yeah Paul, I would be remiss to not ask about vacancies over the winter! Ever been over in Chappaqua off Rt117? There is a bunch of roads named Breckenridge, etc. I worked on Alta Lane last year, never made the connection, till this came up. Duh!

Spoke to the plumber there today. Fun fact: they have to oversize the domestic for the end of the day ski rush, showers for 6 at once, washing clothes..80-120 gallon indirect are SOP!



 

Tim Potter

Design Temp - Alta

Winter Park, CO, elev 9000',  design is -30*, and I saw very close to that several times this winter.



http://www.townofalta.com/docs/newsMar09.pdf

according to the town newsletter Alta's record is -26*



Happy Skiing - (next winter)



Tim

Alan (California Radiant) Forbes

Alta Design Temp.

I'm with Tim. 



I just joined a new gardening website and they want to know what planting zone you live in, finding it by zip code.  I entered Alta's (84092) which comes up with zone 5.



"Average Annual Minimum Temperature", i.e. design temperature

Zone 5a (-20/-15F)

Zone 5b (-15/-10F)



http://www.gardenweb.com/zones/

hot_rod

another website

http://www.wrcc.dri.edu/cgi-bin/cliMAIN.pl?ut0072



shows data back to 1905

Bob Bona_4

eye opener

I think -5 was optimistic now!  I'm thinking -15 after what you guys are saying (and thank you!). Sound reasonable?

Alan (California Radiant) Forbes

Design Temperature

Yes! You won't get any complaints with that design.  It will make your Runtal radiators a bit bigger and your Warmboard outdoor reset parameters somewhat larger.  Let the owners know what you are doing so they know you are paying attention to their comfort.



How will you design your multi-temperature system?  Run your mod-con at high temp. with reset for Runtal and mixing valve for Warmboard?  If so, what kind of mixing valve do you prefer?

Bob Bona_4

I was

on the fence with injection mixing, I know the client's home in RI is supposed to have full blown control decadence to the client's dismay, and for the installer's chest thumping . Client likes it simple. Short of the 'ol three way mix, any viable suggestions above that?

Does the climate vary rapidly out there to the point that full on ODR will have lag?

Also mulling oversizing the rads to see the same water temp as the WB for simplicity, but am considering response time frame/usage..warm up the bedrooms, get into bed and call it a day..lights out.

Another mull: forgo the massive indirect and do a couple of Navien's near demand points so I can match boiler sweet spot to heat load rather than ludicrous size for hot water. Negatives of the wall hungs are: increased complexity and flood prevention if something goes wrong and they are in some closet over/in living space.

Thanks to you guys, I'm feeling good about the design temp!