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Triangle Prestige Excellence tank in tank

gasQs
gasQs Member Posts: 6
Hi All,

We are currently selecting a new gas boiler/water heater system for our 1850 sq feet CT house.

Our first choice was Triangle Prestige Excellence with its "tank in a tank" feature and it is the cheapst install.

However, our plumbing/gas cotnractor is advicing against this choice, and recommending a Viessman boiler/Noritz tankless heater combo instead. His main reason is that TT Excellence system would require annual cleaning at the cost of~$400, while the Viessman/Noritz system would not.

What is the reason TT Excellence would require such high maintenance? Aside from that, are there any CONs to the "tank in a tank"  system  vs. boiler/tankless heater combo?

Finally, the third option on the table is TT Prestige Solo + TT Smart-40 heater.

Again, we are in CT so the gas heat is typically on for at least 6 months, or more like 7-8 months. Just can't figure out if it would be more efficient to maintain a 40-gallon tank the rest of the year, or have an on-demand water heater.

Appreciate your thoughts on this!

Comments

  • AMH112181
    AMH112181 Member Posts: 25
    good unit

    I work for a company in maine that installs Triangle tube units are good units.  If you have more than 2 baths I would reccomend the indirect route.  You could also put in a solo unit and a tankless that would be the most efficient way to go.  Visemann is a good unit too I have just not seen that many.
  • gasQs
    gasQs Member Posts: 6
    edited March 2010
    TT Excellence vs. TT Solo

    Thanks AMH,

    in your professional experience have you seen the need for annual boiler cleaning with TT excellence?



    Any thoughts on TT Solo vs. TT Excellence?

    we have 1.5 bathrooms
  • Tim McElwain
    Tim McElwain Member Posts: 4,480
    All high efficiency equipment

    needs annual maintenance as really all gas and oil equipment should have. I would not let that sway me from making a choice as the installer should be offering you annual maintenance as part of his or her services. At a charge of course.



    It has never been a case that fossil fuel burning equipment did not need annual service and combustion testing.
  • AMH112181
    AMH112181 Member Posts: 25
    Annual Service

    Any wall hung boiler needs at the least a yearly checkup to make sure everything is running right.  "How many years do you go between oil changes in your car?"
  • gasQs
    gasQs Member Posts: 6
    edited March 2010
    service

    Of course I understand annual servicing is necessary. However, our contractor's point is that Triangle Prestige Excellence will require annual cleaning ( at the cost of $400) while the Viessman/Noritz tankless combination will NOT and will therefore save us on maintenance.



    So the points I'm puzzled about are:

    1.  Why is it that Viessman/Noritz supposedly will NOT need cleaning?

    2. Why does cleaning has to cost $400? as far as I know preventative service contracts on new gas boilers average about $100-150. It costs us $200 for a full preventative and repair service contract on our oil boiler ( includes annual cleaning). So why such high maintenance fee for this Triangle Excellence boiler?  None of my research online turned up any information on this particular boiler requiring EXTRA maintenance. Hence, I can't help but be sceptical about the $400 question.
  • Tim McElwain
    Tim McElwain Member Posts: 4,480
    GASQS

    Contact Guy Woolard from Triangle Tube at [email protected] I am sure he can give you answers to your questions.
  • AMH112181
    AMH112181 Member Posts: 25
    annual

    Maybe your guy just wants you to buy the Viessman.  But I am positive that all Manufactures require some sort of annual maintenance.  Maybe he made up the $400 figure so you would buy the Viessman. 
  • Slimpickins
    Slimpickins Member Posts: 323
    $400?

    I could see it costing $400 for a service if you have a really dirty heat exchanger made by that French company. The Triangle Tube heat is supposedly "self cleaning" in the way condensate washes combustion residue out of the exchanger. I have heard if you do need to get into the heat exchanger it is a bear. Has anyone had to do it yet?
  • Tim McElwain
    Tim McElwain Member Posts: 4,480
    Saw it done in the

    classroom, of course it was factory guys doing it so it did not seem so bad.



    Hey I have done factory retrofits on equipment that they sent me with a coverage of two hours labor, and it took me six hours go figure. Maybe I am just slow!
  • gasQs
    gasQs Member Posts: 6
    edited March 2010
    heat exchanger

    Maybe that's why the cleaning quote was so high- because of the difficulty of getting into the heat exchanger...

    I also read about TT's self-cleansing property so hopefully it will work that way and won't need to get into the heat exchanger too often. After all [at least  in my amateur understanding] it is a mostly  closed system, unlike the old boiler that we have now so shouldn't really get as dirty..



    On that note- just wondering, anyone has any general feel for how often cleaning of the heat exchanger is typically required with condensing systems? I realize there are probably various factors that can affect how often it gets clogged up, but just to get a rough idea?



    Thanks for all the comments so far!
  • AMH112181
    AMH112181 Member Posts: 25
    solo

    I have taken apart a solo 250 that had been in for 2 years.  And it was spotless then after I put it back together I had to set it up all over again.
  • Tim McElwain
    Tim McElwain Member Posts: 4,480
    Most Mod/Cons require annual

    cleaning. On some of them you may get away with 18 months but I would follow factory recommended maintenance in order to preserve the warranty on equipment.



    So the answer is once a year.
  • gasQs
    gasQs Member Posts: 6
    edited March 2010
    Prestige Excellence & annual cleaning

    Tim- thanks a lot for your suggestion to contact Guy-his comments were very helpful!



    I wanted to share the information he provided regarding the Prestige Excellence model:



    "The Prestige boilers are the only VERTICAL FIRETUBE modulating/ condensing high efficiency boiler on the market.  Due to the design of the boiler, the heat exchanger is, in fact, self cleaning.  There is no annual requirement for heat exchanger cleaning.  If you were to check the specifications for competitive boilers, you would find that cleaning was required in order to maintain their warranty.

     

    As for the Excellence vs Solo and Smart:

     

    An Excellence is exactly a Solo with a built in (small) Smart tank.  The domestic HW performance is somewhat diluted due to the size of the internal Smart tank.  It will deliver enough HW for a single shower and average household use, but it WILL fall short if one tries to run two showers simultaneously.  If your home has a single bath, the Excellence is a cost efficient and space saving unit."



    I am now happily convinced Prestige Excellence is exactly what will work for our house best.



    Again- appreciate everyone's input!
  • Charlie from wmass
    Charlie from wmass Member Posts: 4,195
    Prices are not discussed here as a rule

    The question is not factual. ALL boilers require service annually! If they are set up right to start with the service is quicker and there for less expensive. If they are not then it costs more. All boilers require parts as they do wear out. The guy who buys a car and never changes the oil has to trade it in more often than the one who services it faithfully, most of the time.
    Cost is what you spend , value is what you get.

    cell # 413-841-6726
    https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/charles-garrity-plumbing-and-heating
  • gasQs
    gasQs Member Posts: 6
    edited March 2010
    maintenance

    The importance of annual maintenance was never the question- no need to reiterate the obvious



    The question was whether the suggestion that one should expect EXTRA maintenance on one boiler system vs. another is justified 



    The price was only given in order to provide a sense of the magnitude of the "extra maintenance" as suggested by the tech. The VALUE of one system vs. another was exactly the subject of discussion ( the extra maintenance cost being the factor that according to the tech made that system's VALUE lower than the alternative)
  • bradytwelker
    bradytwelker Member Posts: 1
    Prestige Excellence

    Have a Prestige Excellence and want to be able to run multiple showers at the same time.  What is the recommendation?  Prestige Excellence + Indirect Smart Tank or Prestige Excellence + Tankless Water Heater?

    Thanks!
  • NYplumber
    NYplumber Member Posts: 503
    recipe

    This should get you in the ball park: Low flow shower head (Delta 1.2 gpm) + raise tank temp + anti scold device on heater. Its all math so you have to measure the flow you would like and the duration you plan on using the dhw.

    That should cover you.
    :NYplumber: