Looking for a Pro or Friendly Advice

Daniel Cayea

Here in my hometown of Lyon Mountain, New York it gets very cold during the winter time.  Which is probably why when Republic Steel built these homes they chose coal fired steam boilers to keep us warm.  Well the company is gone and so is the coal, replaced by an oil fired Burnham V85 boiler.  The boiler may be new but the rest of the system is in a bad state of affairs.  I have two issues that need resolution, but the installers who put in this nice V85, are no longer in business.

The first is my vents all leak and hiss.  They are all for the most part ITT/Hoffman #40's.  I'm sure that they must be undersized perhaps, since some of those #40's are brand new.  I'm not sure what to get or how to tell.

The other is several of the valves leak even after repacking them or have a hairline fracture that leaks after the system has been on for a while.

Thanks for any advice, and if anyone knows of a pro in this area.

-Dan

jpf321

what pressure?

the first question that needs to be asked is what is your pressure set at?



flaky vents and leaking valves could be a sign of pressure too high. anything above 2psi would be unnecessary. if you have a standard honeywell pressuretrol, most people here will suggest that you set it at 0.5psi with a differential of 1psi.



repacking the valves isn't too complicated.but i see that you have already tried that. cracked valves are a bit more difficult and probably require a plumber. FYI, the valve should be either FULLY opened or FULLY closed .. nothing in the middle. quite possibly the system underwent a freezing condition while there was water in the valve and this may have caused the cracks.



vents maybe failed due to high pressure. but they may also just need a good cleaning (boil in white vinegar solution). or at the very least a shaking out or draining.



also check your radiator pitch .. it should be pitched slightly toward the inlet pipe. a common suggestion here is to adjust the pitch slightly using $0.25 quarters .. then once you have it correct, permanently set the pitch with something of the same width as your stacked quarters.



get back to us regarding the current pressure settings and if it's high, turn it down.

nicholas bonham-carter

hissing vent and valves

is this 1-pipe or 2-pipe?

it sounds like your steam pressure is too high. a good low-pressure gauge [gaugestore.com 0-3 psi] would tell you exactly what your pressure is. in the meantime, have the pigtail checked for obstruction, which may prevent the pressure from being properly regulated.

as far as valves go, are you refering to the main vents on the pipes in the basement? those do all the work, and often suffer the most abuse. check those for capacity, and add more, so you don't have to chase the air out with your wallet!  let the air escape on its own with ample venting.

use the find a pro button above to see if anyone is in your area.

also in the meantime, get a copy of "the lost art of steam heating" here at the shop, and many aspects of these systems will become much easier to understand.--nbc

Daniel Cayea

Checking in...

The pressure is set at 2 PSI, the subtractive differential is also set at 2 PSI.  It is a one pipe system.  Like I mentioned, the boiler and perhaps the vents are new, but the pipes and the radiators are circa ~1905. There werent ever any vents in the basement. The system now, has two radiators less than when the building was built.  One of the shoots that had a radior now has a vent in it, a Hoffman 40, and I'm sure it needs something better, but I'm not sure what to put in its place.  I've looked for a steam pro and there isn't one within 100 miles of Zip 12952, but then perhaps I am not using the search tool correctly.

jpf321

pressure is too high

the pressure should be 0.5psi and diff of 1psi .. so do turn it down when you get a chance.

my boiler and pipes are ca. 1928 and i run at oz on my vaporstat.

perhaps you overpressured your vents and they need to be replaced.

perhaps just cleaned.

check your radiators pitch to ensure drainage of the vent.

perhaps everything was subjected to a freezing condition while there was water in the valves and vents. how long have you had the house?

Daniel Cayea

A long time...

The house has been in my family for almost 50 years, although I've had it the past 5.  6 years ago however the house was empty for a year before I took over.  The new boiler was put in when I moved in.  I will try turning the pressure down on the boiler.

Jamie Hall

It/s not so bad...

First thing is your pressure is too high.  As has been said, you should turn it down.  If you have a more or less standard pressuretrol, there should be two scales on it.  You should try first setting the cut in at 0.5 psi and the differential (which is additive) at 1 psi.  Then your system should run between 0.5 and 1.5, which is actually probably about right for a one pipe system.



Try that for a day or two and see if it helps -- it should.



The Hoffman 40 is a pretty tough bird, so that even though you were running too high a pressure they may well have survived.  If so, and they aren't crudded up, they should be much happier.



You may also find that at the lower pressure the valve problem may be much less severe, and if you have already repacked them as you say you may be able to take up a little (easy does it) on the packing and get them to behave.  The hairline crack, though, might still be a problem.  Give it some time and see.



If you are really interested in getting the system to work right, do at least get "We Got Steam Heat", a book which is available under "shop" on this site.  If you want to get more technical, also get "The Lost Art of Steam Heating" -- also on the site.  Between those, a little curiousity, and a good plumber you will find that you can do wonders for your system!



It is possible that more venting in the basement, on the steam mains, might be in order -- but let's worry about that later.

Daniel Cayea

Will do...

I'm going to get "The Lost Art of Steam Heating" after the new year.  One valve that is spitting and hissing is in a radiator I can't replace it.  I don't know if this was tapped incorrectly or the radiator has just become accustomed to this particular radiator, but I can't get any other vent to screw in.  It is the same size. 

Daniel Cayea

Update

Well, it seems that the radiators that have new vents are warmer, but they still hiss loudly and don't stay closed all the time.  For example, it will hiss for a moment or two, close itself, and then maybe 5 or 10 minutes later while the boiler is still going open up and hiss some more and then close again.

One question I have, is when my boiler was installed, a nipple that had been sealed off, did have a vent put into it, but it is a Hoffman #40, should that be replaced with something better/bigger?

Thanks,

Dan

Unknown

Panting

The Hoffman 40 is a radiator valve, not a main valve.  If this "nipple" is on a main it should have at least a Gorton #1 which has about 7 time more venting capacity than a Hoffman 40.  Pex Supply has them. www.pexsupply.com   It sounds like your system is "panting". Do you have areas on the steam main that aren't insulated? You also might want to check your main's slope and see that there is no sagging where condensate could collect. "Panting" is caused by steam collapse which can be from a bare area of cold pipe (no insulation) or from a cold pool of condensate (water) in the pipe due to a low spot (sag)  Does the vent opening and closing stop when the system finally warms up?

-Rod

Daniel Cayea

Yes and yes.

I'm not sure if I have the terminology right, but am I right to say the pipe that circles my basement with each end going into my boiler is the loop?  Most of the main loop is insulated, however much of the offshoots are not insulated.  I know that they should be insulated, but I'm not sure what to insulate them with.  I do have a Lowe's near me, but I haven't seen anything that looks good to insulate with.

Thanks,

Dan

P.S. I will order one of those Gorton valves for my main vent.

jpf321

home depot ...

Home Depot has plenty of pipe insulation: http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Search?keyword=thermwell%2Bpipe%2Bcover ahhh.. but now I see this is only 1/2" think .. 1" thick is recommended....(drats .. now I have to re-cover my pipes .. and more importantly find 1" thick stock. )

arches

insulation source

JPF - check out these guys for 1" thick insulation

Allstate Insulation 56-23 55TH AVENUE

MASPETH, NY 11378

PHONE: 718-894-2345

FAX: 718-894-4966

Apparently they don't do a lot of retail business, but they were willing to sell me 200 linear feet for various pipe sizes. Significantly cheaper than ordering online (State Supply, etc) - esp since you are local and could probably pick it up.

jpf321

hey thanks ..

hey thanks arches .. and where r u located? you going to steam seminar on Jan 6th in L.I.C.? 

arches

brooklyn

I'm in Brooklyn now...but I grew up in Bayside for most of my childhood. Not sure about the seminar at this point...I still have a lot of learning to do from Lost Art!