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2 pipe steam

I have a 2 pipe system with a condensate pump and a master trap. I know I need to remove the master trap and repair all the traps on the radiators. The thing is, the steam main's drip into a wet return which go directly back to the boiler through the hartford loop, only the dry returns lead into the condensate pump. My question is do I still need F&T traps between the end of the main and the wet returns? The boiler has a Hartford loop and an equailzer, I'm figuring the pressure is equalized in the wet return through the steam pressure and the equalizer. I have looked through 'the lost art of steam' but I do not see a system like this. I did read that whenever you have condensate pumps you will always need traps, but it does not seem to mention this situation.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Comments

  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 19,966
    Hybrids

    are such fun!  Where the steam mains drip directly -- do not pass 'go' -- into the wet return, they don't need traps.  Look at the diagram in Lost Art on pg. 125, left column, and the commentary.  Nor does the wet return need a trap, but you do need the Hartford Loop and equalizer.  If the end of the steam main drops directly down into the wet return, it doesn't need a trap either; in fact, if you do not have those traps, you are looking at an A dimension, as the steam pressure at the end of the main is pushing down on the wet return through the drip.



    Everything that goes into the dry return must be trapped, though, before it gets into the dry return -- and therefore it is quite likely that the condensate pump is needed for the condensate from the dry return to get back into the boiler.



    At least that's my take on it...
    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 15,657
    Sounds like

    you have a knuckleheaded Vapor system. But it's fixable. Your best bet would be to have a Steam Man look at it. Have you tried the Find a Professional page of this site? 
    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    Towson, MD, USA
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Consulting
  • Steve_210
    Steve_210 Member Posts: 617
    2 pipe

     is that not 2 pipe vented system jamie i have seen a few of these.

    we are about to change out all the bad traps or at least the elements. i do not think we need F+T;s at the ends of the steam mains as they drip into wet returns but i just wanted to be sure 
  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 15,657
    edited November 2009
    If that's a Webster system

    they sometimes did use F&T traps to drip steam mains into wet returns. But in that case, the wet returns went thru a Return Trap before reaching the boiler. This setup was called "non-pressurized returns". It was probably a way of protecting the boiler before the Hartford Loop became standardized.



    I doubt you now need the F&T traps or the condensate pump. Gravity return works great and has a lot fewer moving parts.
    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    Towson, MD, USA
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Consulting
This discussion has been closed.