Crude language (Dan H.)

Jim Erhardt_4

...it is the site owner that sets participation guidelines to maintain the tone of the site. For a civil and professional tone to endure in a public forum, enforcement of policy must always take precedent over any individual or thread of discussion.

My kudos to Dan for keeping The Wall on the high road.

DanHolohan

Even if you replace some of the letters with XXX

it's still crude. I hate to keep removing threads from the Wall, but it's not professional to curse, so I'll keep taking them down. You're wasting our time if you keep cursing here, and I'll have to ask you to leave if you don't stop.

Thanks for your understanding and your cooperation.

David Sutton_6

Thanks Dan

bill_105

absolutely

It distracts from the goal of learning and putting it to use. Just look at **** Cheney!

EricAune

Right on

DXXX Cheney?

Just kidding, thanks Dan.

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

Paul Fredricks_9

It's your site, and you should and can make the rules and everyone should follow them.

Personally, I don't care about the language, as long as the words aren't used in a hurtful way. To me, they are just words. I can picture a day when they are in Funk and Wagnall's.

Bill Clinton_6

Dissenting opinion

Hi, Dan:

I am bothered by your decision because I think that thread addressed an issue of importance and the entire community stood to gain from the discussion. I've been hanging around your site for about ten years and have seen numerous slow evolutions from raucous dissension rife with abusive language to mutual understanding, increased knowledge, tolerance, and even consensus and civility. I have always believed this a towering achlievement of this web site and community.

Why not, instead of deleting the entire thread, just excise the offending word, deliver a warning to the offender, and if the offender repeats offense too much, then bar him from the web site? I don't see that this process would demand substantially more of your time than deleting the entire thread and dealing with informing why you have done so.

I realize that policy will not paint such a pretty picture for the non-trade public, but I'm not wild about "pretty pictures" any how.

There was real concern in the offending post, and it was someone groping for an understanding of how to handle a very difficult situation, unsure of the correctness of how he actually handled it, and as manfully as he could, laying the question out for input from his peers.

To me it looks like you threw out the baby with the bathwater.

Bill

Bill Cliinton

Empire_2

Think of it like this..........

"Speak to someone with the utmost respect, as you would expect to be spoken to."

Since we are civilized, try to exercise politeness, It never offended anyone...........

Mike T.

Now I sound like a politician with morals........?

DanHolohan

Bill,

thanks, as always, for the thoughtful post. The software that runs this Wall is a bit unusual in that it will delete all the posts that are tied to an offending post. If I do what you suggest, much of the thread will no longer make sense. The new Wall will have many more features and this won't be an issue then.

Rich Kontny_3

The new Wall

Are we getting closer Dan???? As far as your rules go I have no problem with them as I have learned over the years to conform and learn. You have every right to apply rules as you see fit.

Bill Clinton_6

Right to web site

Jim: Of course Dan can do as he wants with his web site. Never challenged that right. All I'm saying is I think he errs.

Seems to me I remember a ten year younger Jim Erhardt who then styled himself Doc Radiant who made posts that to my sensitivities, at any rate, were aggessive, arrogant, belittling, and so forth (no four letter words though). Do you wish that way back then someone had deleted your threads because they weren't civil enough. Personally, I think you grew from the process as I did on my end.

Bill Clinton

Rollie Peck_3

Foul language

I'm with you, Dan.

The topic reminds me of the sign above the dock in Sasebo, Japan in the 1950's where the sailors came in from anchored ships in the harbor: "Swearing shows ignorance, be intelligent."

Rollie Peck,

Homeowner

Bill Clinton_6

Dan

I recall a younger Dan Holohan who stridently made rash assertions and repeatedlly put his foot in his mouth in ways that were not polite and not civil, and often just plain wrong. I remember The Wall as a place where people were willing to assert strong opinions and call a spade a spade, if that was the way they saw it. I learned enormously from those exchanges.

Sure, it's usually better to speak with civilly. Unfortunately, not everyone has a B.A in Sociology (as do both you and I), the obtaining of which has required them to hone their rhetoric and their manners. Sometimes people have upsets difficult to articulate and reason rationally about. I remember a Wall where they could, in whatever manner they were capable, tell others of their angers and pains and frustrations and be heard, and counseled by people who live the same experiences and may just be a little further along in their careers.

I fear that is passing and The Wall is trending toward being just a revenue stream wherin one doesn't risk alienating potential customers. I fear it is becoming just a business and not a community. I fear it is in danger of embracing so many things you rightly used to criticise the Radiant Panel Association for.

I'm not in any way disputing your right to run your web site the way you want. Maybe all good things must eventually pass, but I'm not going to watch them pass unremarked.

Bill

GW

uhh

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Sure, it's usually better to speak with civilly. Unfortunately, not everyone has a B.A in Sociology (as do both you and I),

it's comments like that which can lead to spin-offs, and you have a degree in the ins and outs of social aspects..golly gee

I don't have that degree, and I am pleased with my ability to comminicate...this is gramar school-aged stuff, it just doesn't look professional at all, if I was a HO reading some of these posts I would wonder what's up.

Gary

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

oil-2-4-6-gas

i was part of that discussion and also feel it was not offensive and the "crude" language was done in a way to get the point across, nothing else ---seriously i hear language at schools and office buildings -- that are more offensive and crude by 10 fold ----if this is what is to be -----------i will be moving on ------now whether or not I have,do or will actually give any good answers,opinions or help with anyones questions is open for debate -------

DanHolohan

Yes,

this is what it is to be, what was intended, what it should have been all along, and for sure what it will be when the new site launches.

Your call from there. Stay or go, up to you.

Steamhead (in transit)

This is Dan's house

and he makes the rules, which we all must follow. End of discussion.

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

oil-2-4-6-gas

A large percentage of this business is "crude" it was built on "crude" //////refined crude /

bill_105

MR. H.

Just be yourself - everything will fall into place.

Alan R. Mercurio_3

Dan, it’s many of the people here and most of all how you maintain this wonderful community that I enjoy being here.

Thanks for making it possible.

Your friend in the industry,
Alan R. Mercurio

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

Unknown

Yea,

What Alan said...

Rich Kontny_3

oil246gas

Dan made a very clear point about vulgarities and you responded with a very strong post using a vulgarity. You were challenging Dan's wishes. I hear it all the time too but I have come to the point of not needing it in my everyday vocabulary.

We all have the choice of visiting and participating here and I for one can live with the rules in exchange for what I gain.

Mitch_4

best teacher for not swearing

is kids, I have seen 6 and 8 year olds drop the "f" bomb in a crowd, silence, and the parents mortified. I know though that the dad uses it often, so you reap what you sow.

Tony_23

???

And what vulgarity is that ? I see no XXX, the universal symbol for a vulgar word or term. Maybe he should've just used a comma instead of /// so there wouldn't be any confusion.

Unknown

I personally find

swearing not only offensive but a sign of mental gaps filled with terms that do not explain the reasoning the person is trying to make.

It however should be the motto of all here in dealing with one another to practice what we preach. I can remember a time on one of our Wall outings that very foul language was used and it offended my wife who was present along with some other wives.

For some reason foul language is now out in open forums and especially among our young people. I wonder were they learned such language.

Bob Harper

decorum in the forum

Dan, I applaud your stance and embrace it. If you cannot maintain decorum and a professional composure, this is no place for you. On a side note, should anyone on this list ever be subpoenaed, under the rules of discovery, ANY postings you make on the web are subject. Therefore, everytime you post on the web, just consider how it would sound being read aloud by yourself in a deposition or court room.
Yes, the profanity this is getting waaay out of hand in public.
I find it interesting in Dr. Karl Menninger's works where he is asked the definition of 'mental health'. Cutting and pasting here, it includes "socially considerate behavior". I think that speaks for itself.
Bob

Bill Clinton_6

I have nothing against good manners.

What I'm saying is that, in my book, humanity and straight talking trump protecting a pristine public face and covering one's.....uuhhhhh...posterior. Any day. Any time.

Obviously I'm in a small minority.

Done with this subject.

Bill

GW

yes indeed

We are all keenly aware of the various methods on communication.

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

Alan(OnVacationInOregon)Forbes

I like

straight talking as well. Trouble is, when does straight talking become abusive; it's a fine line. I don't mind a bit of swearing to make a point, but to needlessly swear is detracting.

I have become very heated with discussions on The Wall, but don't have a problem with keeping my swear words out of it.

I think we are all on the same wavelength here. Bill just doesn't want his or others freedom of speech (swearing) to be limited to the point where we loose content. You've got to admit it, some of us mechanics are pretty rough around the collar and have problems with even spelling the swear words, but they have something to say.

oil-2-4-6-gas

RICH??

> Dan made a very clear point about vulgarities

> and you responded with a very strong post using a

> vulgarity. You were challenging Dan's wishes. I



What vulgarity are you referencing?? if you are commenting on my participation in that thread --the only word that was used by myself - was a 3 letter word used to describe a donkey---or a long eared slow animal of the --something family ---or a stupid idiotic person --///////////////////////or are you referencing the fact that i stated a very well known fact// about a boiler maufacturers' model that was a huge problem that leaked in the same place on a huge percentage of them ???? i'm missing something

Dave Yates (GrandPAH)_2

past dust-ups

Good points & this post had me thinking back to the wild-west days on The Wall. At my advanced age, the memory ain't exactly to be trusted, but seems to me we had some raucus knock-down dragged-out dust-ups that, at times, got mighty confrontational with more than a few in-your-face dialogs.

All, as I recall, without a single profane word tossed in to inflame the already burning inferno of rhetoric. Ahhhhhh, those were the days(G).

I also recall when the "free speech" line of responsible civility was crossed and, in addition, porn was tossed in and The Wall was taken down until our host could have it rebuilt with some safeguards built in. A few hollered "censorship" while the rest lamented the loss caused by ignorance and lack of civility.

It's been a lively evolution and most folks grew (matured?) along with The Wall. Gone are the wild-west bar-room days with their shoot-em-up dust-ups, but in their place we have a vastly expanded family where an industry-unique blending takes place across the lines of homeowners/DIYers/and professionals.

Personally, I'm more than ok with the changes. It is, after all, our hosts' home we're visiting.

Rich Kontny_3

It has been deleted

I think you know what was listed for a short amount of time. I saw it and thought it was out of line. Remember we have many homeowners and ladies who visit this site besides hose of us who are used to such language. Why is this request so difficult?

Rich Kontny_3

Dave

Well said , I am one of those who has matured.

Dave Yates (GrandPAH)_2

me too

This rich soup we all get to taste is flavored by each morsel that's added. The 'head chef' is in charge of ensuring nothing that would sour its taste gets added!

The menu is as diverse as it gets and the diners deserve the best.

oil-2-4-6-gas

RICH

who do you think deleted it ?? Dan has already stated that the way the program works --as far as deleting foul language , it has to delete the whole thread ---i did write and EDIT myself a few times in different threads ---so im not sure of exactly what i wrote -that you may be referring to -- you might even have me mixed up with someone else ---either way any EDITING done to my post was by ME ---

Rich Kontny_3

those of us

who have been here a while know this is not a new thing. Dan has ran a tight ship for quite a while. Yes some may leave yet Dan has never let that sway his rules.

Rich Kontny_3

Whatever

It was there long enough to see. Why post it in the first place???

oil-2-4-6-gas

are you sure it was me? or something in my post ,because i'm not buying it --i could write my complete reply to that thread here -verbatim ------why dont you e-mail what i wrote

Rich Kontny_3

It is gone

And I did not copy it. Lets just let it pass.

DanHolohan

Gentlemen,.

we don't need or want another fight here. It's about helping each other, not fighting with each other. Please stop this.

Thank you.

oil-2-4-6-gas

what ? JUST let it pass

your calling me out --stating that i was challenging Dan --and i had something written something that was-what ?? just let it pass NO way i take a lot of time to type my responses (terrible at typing ) the reason that thread was deleted was because of an F-bomb from the thread originator--i did have a three letter word starting with an A (thats a synonym for a Donkey) in my post nothing more that could be considered offensive ----i Edit myself , hold my tongue more than you can imagine -at work,home with the kids,on these public forums,just for the very reason you dont know who is going to be within earshot/eyesite of a conversation or thread posting just for the particular reasons that this whole thread started ----And you cant write me an e-mail to what you think I might have posted -- YOU sir --have your facts mixed up