Neutralizer designs?

Unknown

drainback on the condensate pump. I remove the small duckbill check in the pump and keep the line out as short as possible, and pump it outside.Works well and eliminates all the hassles of the neutralizer.

Unknown

I'm looking for some.

Time for me to build another neutralizer and although I kind of like my design (pictured) I was wondering if there were any better ideas out there that someone would be willing to share.

Craig R Bergman

Here's what we do

Just finished this install. The condensate "in" line is 3/4 PVC that goes almost to the bottom of the pail.

Bergy

Unknown

See,

I never would have tought of that! Pretty simple.

Unknown

Are you,

putting marble chips in the pump?

hot_rod

I'm considering clear PVC on my next

version. I found a place in Florida that sells it by the foot. 3" clear PVC would allow you to see the condition of the chips.

I use a PVC cap or Fernco for the top and another ell for the discharge.

hr

Unknown

So,

The bottom is blanked off? One 3/4 ell in at the bottom, another 3/4 ell out higher up and then a cap on top? I like...

hot_rod

yes

the bottom is a capped closet flange for the stand. I add the top FIP ell when I determine which position would work best.

hr

Unknown

No

Condensate pumps today are all acid proof, I just pump it out to the side of the house( not on the sidewalk of course)

Unknown

Nice,

I may have to steal that one. Thanks!

Unknown

Ah,

I'm not sure of your location but up here in the frozen north I've had pump discharge tubes freeze shut on me when they were terminated outside so I always discharge inside to the soil pipe somehow.

Unknown

This is why you remove the

check, when the pump shuts off, whatever water is left in the tube drains back to the pump. I was skeptical at first too. Now have dozens in like this for several years in PA. It works fine and have never had a problem. Try to keep the pump line short so it doesnt remove half your capacity of reservoir when it drains back.

Unknown

Hmph,

now there's something I wouldn't have thought of either. I was wondering why you pulled the check valve. I guess it's worth a shot. If any issues develop I can always build a HR special later. It does address another issue called running vinyl tube 30' to the nearest soil pipe, the outside wall is right there.

Ted_4

Neutralizer Size

Has anyone checked what the pH of the flow is coming out of one type of neutralizer vs another? How large should it be (and how many pounds of chips) does it take to neutralize the condensate from an average modcon? Judging from the pictures you guys have posted, I'm beginning to think I may be making the neutralizers too small.

Unknown

One other thing

dont use one of those low profile mini pumps. They dont hold enough volume and will shortcycle if to much condensate drains back

Unknown

Neutralizer Size

Ted, I just make these up. I use about 3-4 lbs of soda ash (left over from water treatment jobs), tie it in a sockette & drop in, PH is always neutral(7) before and after a season.
I tie it to the wall below the boiler with an L bracket & gear clamp.

Dave

Unknown

Neutralizer Size

Ted, I just make these up. I use about 3-4 lbs of soda ash (left over from water treatment jobs), tie it in a sockette & drop in, PH is always neutral(7) before and after a season.
I tie it to the wall below the boiler with an L bracket & gear clamp.

Dave

Dave Stroman

Not a good idea to just pump it outside. What do you think will happen to the soil over time? I have seen these things produce 5 gallons of condensate in 24 hours. I sure would not want that being pumped and dumped along my house. Wonder if the code address this some where?


Dave Stroman

Darrell_4

I did that one one Knight I put in...worked very well except it made a huge ice flow that eventually covered the Gas Meter. I did not anticipate so much condensate over the winter.

Unknown

Good question

I was waiting for someone to vote against dumping it outside. ;-)

hot_rod

close to 5 gallons

over the course of a day from my 80 Knight. That bucket of condensate was great for cleaning old, blackened copper fittings.

Reminds me of steep snowmelt driveways that dump all the melt waters in the street below.

Better have a good plan for that condensate to escape, and not into your septic leach field.

With a ph around 4 it may not be good for lawns and garden beds, or against the concrete basement foundation.

hr

hr

Uni R_2

If bigger is better...

I figure the 20 pounds of marble chips in there should be good for quite some time. There's about 5' of 3" pipe. The whole thing just lifts out, so it can be taken outside to change the chips every few years or so. By the time the condensate passes out the other end it is completely room temp, so it keeps a few BTUs in the house instead of going down the drain. ;-)

The boiler and indirect (the tank shown is the buffer tank) are on the other side of the block wall.

Unknown

Wow!

That IS a big un! ;-)

Rich Kontny_3

You

Need to camoflage the bucket as it takes away from one sweet install. Very nice install!

Unknown

Dave

The Ph of condensate is about 4 when it leaves the unit. The reason it is acid is because it has alot of free co2 in it. After a couple days the co2 escapes into the atmosphere if it doesnt combine with a neutralizer. Now heres one you probably arent aware of...Rain is about a 5.2 if it is clean, say in some big wildness state. Washington DC is now averaged about 4 to 4.2 some parts of PA and Jersey even lower because of the nitric acid not just the co2. So not to be a wise guy but if your afraid to spill a few hundred gallons of water with co2 on the ground dont dare go out in the rain. What surprises me most about about opinionS here is that they can be so easily checked with a quick google search. There is absolutely no reason to spread misinformation. So if you dont want a #4ph around your house you better get on with building a really big tent.

Unknown

come on Hot rod

I expect better facts from you!

Unknown

Cleaning Black fittings!!!

Hot Rod...we pull wells all the time that are a 4 ph. I think the only thing cleaning your fittings are water and an overactive imagination.

Rich Kontny_3

Clear PVC

If you frequent Milwaukee there is a company called Modular Piping that sells the clear pvc also. I have used them for sight glasses before.

Unknown

You could always dig,,,

a nice dry well outside to discharge to and fill it with marble chips. I'm still more concerned about ice buildup even if the tube stays open. Meanwhile, I need some litmus paper to test the rain...

hot_rod

Now why

would I make something like that up??

The bent sweep on the floor, and the ells in the bucket show the before condition, for reference.

I've got pics, somewhere of a 1/2" deep groove in a concrete slab from a Voyager condensate drain that ran short of the floor drain.

hr

Unknown

Im not saying its

not acid. Just no more acid than rain. By the way California gets rain below 2ph on smoggy days. Ive already drank gas condensate, little flat, tasteless. I dont mind guys building calcite traps, it gives me an edge when we bid against each other. It just pisses me when they tell the customer wild **** lies that I have to dig up the materials to prove them wrong. Its a waste of my time.

hot_rod

regardless

it is what it is. Maybe the addition of the flue gas by-product make it more aggressive? Who knows what is being added to the blended natural gas we get these days.

Hercules Sizzle does the exact same thing to dirty copper, also. Brightens the tube and turns the solder black.

The rain in Missouri turns clean, new copper tube dark when I leave it on the rack of my truck. I wish it would take it the other way.

I've seen the Laco solder flux rep eat tablespoons of their flux at trade shows, not sure I'm ready to try that :0

hr

Unknown

LOL,,,

does it come in flavors? If they made it in chocolate I'd probably give it a whirl.

Unknown

Nothing can be

as bad as the supply house coffee aroung 2 in the afternoon, and I drink that sometimes

Unknown

Truth is HR

They keep debating if global warming is real, but to those of us who do water treatment we see it every day...more and more co2 in our water. 25 years ago you very rarely saw a well around here that was acid,they were all hard. Today they are acid with hardness. When they first started coming up acid we used calcite to neutralize, then they started coming up below 6 and had to use calcite/mag-ox mix. Today many wells have to inject soda ash and even sodium hydroxide. The co2 is killing the coral reefs and causing all types of havoc with marine life. I love scuba diving in the reefs and every year they just keep dying. You see how Dave Strohman was complaining how terrible that flue gas was for the soil, do you think now that he knows the rain is just as bad and worse he will go home and install some solar panels.... of course not. Its easy to talk the talk but much harder to walk the walk. Its sad to say but the earth is going to be a much more beautiful place without us.

Darrell_4

Dunno about the rain eating up the Earth, or whatever...but I was at an apartment today where the boiler, (a Munchkin), fell over backwards and flooded a bunch of junk in the crawl space. It had been set on three cinder blocks 21 months ago and the condensate trap was never plumbed to anywhere...it just ran down the back block...until the back block was no longer with us. Haven't seen many cinder blocks disappear after 21 months by being exposed to rain.

Unknown

water neutralizers

I install dozens of tank type neutralizers, usually 1-1/2 cube units. Thats about 150 lbs of calcite/mag-ox and I have to recharge them every year. 150 lbs is alot of limestone to dissolve! Most times we will bypass the outside hydrants to wash cars and water plants...the cars still have paint and the flowers grow fine. If you want to learn more join the WQA.
Use a search engine and find out what acid streams and rivers are doing to dams and bridge pylons. What makes carbonic acid differ from sulfuric acid? Why do condensing oil boilers fail here? Why do carbonic acid water supplys eat the cold water piping 20 to 1 over the hot water piping? Water your wifes plants with your condensate(its ok). Do you terminate your condensing boilers and furnaces on outside brick and stucco walls? What happens? Do you let your kids drink soda? Know what the ph of soda is? Do you know why? Its a funny thing.. in 1975 if I would have told you I had a box thats sits on your lap and that box contained all the knowledge of mankind at your fingertips, you would have said your crazy, now we have it and nobody uses it. Bid a job against a local oil company. I bid a mod/con with tankless. Oil company bids steel boiler with tankless coil. They tell customer with a tankless coil you get your hot water for free in the winter time! How do you deal with that type of fuzzy physics?

Mark Eatherton

Ridiculous justifications...

TONY, the code say ye shall properly treat and dispose of any condensate, and it specifically DIS allows discharging it on the ground. Your poor practice of dumping it on the ground will eventually come back to bite you on the hind side, either in the form of collapsed ground, collapsed structure, dead vegetation, or major slip fall hazard.

It's your business, and you can drive it in to the ground however you want to, but if you were employed by me, you'd do it right, or you'd be seeking employment elsewhere. But don't try justifying your poor workmanship practices by citing acid rain statistics. If you can't afford to do it right the first time, where the hell are you going to find time to do it again?

ME

Unknown

I have an order in,

for the PH of the rain here next time it does. It's never ocurred to me before to check the PH of the rain. I was not aware it was against code to dump it on the ground untreated. I'd always just sent it to the sewer/septic untreated because I've had them freeze shut when they discharged outside. We've been installing 90%+ furnaces for years without treating the water. It's only the last year or so I've become aware of the whole neutralizer thing but I've used them on the most recent jobs and intend to continue. Far as I know, I'm the only one doing so in my area. It'll be fun to make the local inspectors aware of it and have all my competitors get boinked on it for a while. I know,,, I'm just evil. ;-)

The way I know is I can walk in any supply house here and say "neutralizer" and get the old "are you from outer space?" look from the counter guy. lol

Unknown

Mark maybe we can

hook it up to one of your magnetic softners LOL. Mark your a good heating man but your water treatment skills are obviously lacking. Why use facts and science when discharging condensate. You dont use it for your water softening, why should you use it for your condensate removal. Who do you think you are calling my work poor, the great Mark Eatherton! Please Mark, you know a good deal of this work is actually being able to physically do it, Something you lost long ago.

Unknown

MPF

As stated above, Mark sells magnetic water softners, which he freely admits.You can download the Purdue university test or just simply ask for a third party test result(you wont find one)But Mark says they work. GE ,Pentair, and many other industries are really upset because Mark Eatherton says they work. LOL. The acid condensate will hurt nothing if it is dumped in a plastic sewer. But there are some other things to consider. First, when you dump into a sanitary system you cannot drill and tap it you must cut in a trap.Running a pipe across the floor is also illegal. Most codes require a 2 inch deep seal trap, try to find a washer waste that will be reprimed. Traps dry out very quickly when not being primed, if you have nothing else going in the trap in a couple of weeks after heating season you will start to smell sewer gas.
Second..How long do you think it will be till the citys pick up on the thousands of gallons of unmetered gas condensate being picked up in the sewer for free?
I never suggested causing a ice dam or a slip and fall spot, I assumed everyone would realize that. A little buried stone bed outside on larger jobs is a good idea. Noone is going to maintain these calcite traps, homeowners move,mechanics die, ect. I wouldnt tell you this if I didnt do it and unlike Mark I still do my own work.