American made products

Charlie from wmass

Products need to be worth buying. WHy are so many of us installing imported boilers? They work well and save energy. As the US manufacturers offer more cutting edge technology We try and use them but then fall victim to the "Is it made on monday or friday?" issues. Seems some products are rock solid one minute and junk the next. We need manufacturing in this nation to survive but we also need top notch product designs to make. Why can my Toyota Tacoma carry the same tools I had in my Ford super duty and not look like it is squatting?

Charlie from wmass

Products need to be worth buying. WHy are so many of us installing imported boilers? They work well and save energy. As the US manufacturers offer more cutting edge technology We try and use them but then fall victim to the "Is it made on monday or friday?" issues. Seems some products are rock solid one minute and junk the next. We need manufacturing in this nation to survive but we also need top notch product designs to make. Why can my Toyota Tacoma carry the same tools I had in my Ford super duty and not look like it is squatting?

Rich Kontny_3

Charlie

That Toyota Tacoma was most likely made in San Antonio. Americans are some of the most productive people on earth. As I stated earlier until the quality of life in third world countries improves to the point where they become consumers, we will have this problem.

DanHolohan

Part of the challenge

is that they are becoming consumers. This is part of what Tom Friedman addresses in Hot, Flat and Crowded.

I wish everyone in this business would take the time to read this important book.

Charlie from wmass

Assembled is not made. that is the issue. the money is made on the parts not the end product in order to dodge taxes in the US. My truck is relativly simple that is why it will last, not intermittent wipers or electric seats. It is not even an automatic.

Darin Cook_9

What is a company's largest concern when making biz decisions?

It is the tax burden! If you fix the broken and out of control tax system in the US you will have businesses flocking back to the US in droves. Can you imagine if they instituted a flat tax of 23% upon all new goods and services? No more withholding on you paycheck! No more guessing if the IRS is going to find something wrong on your return! Everyone now pays the fair share even criminals! I know - What a dream!!

Darin

jackchips_2

Darin,

Many years ago Representative Army from Texas (retired) suggested a value added tax which at the time also seemed to be a solid solution to our onerous system.

It went know where which tells me it probably would have worked.

Jack

[Deleted User]

The lesson was not completely learned and also gets forgotten.

Dr. W. Edwards Deming, the American quality pioneer whose approach was embraced by Toyota and most Japanese manufacturers (in all industries), said this:

"I don't say anything about the work force - they are the part we don't need to worry about. All they ask is a chance to do their job. They are not the problem - the problem is management not doing their job."

If those Monday/Friday issues still exist in a manufacturer's products, in my opinion it's because the management hasn't permitted those who know their jobs to do them properly. In many cases this results from shareholder pressure for short-term financial results. So, in addition to Dr. Deming's statement in a film I saw 30 years ago:

"The problem is management; it's always management."

I'd add "The problem is Wall Street too."

an old wrench puller

Today;

I installed a Taco Shell and Tube Heat exchanger. On the cast head it said "Brazil". On The flanges welded to the shell it said "India" The shell it self had two tags, one said "Road Island" and "Canada", the other said "Massachusetts". Neither said "Made in".

The box the B & G circuit setter came in said "Made in China". The Companion Flanges I put on had no name and were of very poor quality. The Groove by thread nipples said "Taiwan". The groove fittings, "China.

The Craftsman wrenches I used said "Japan"

This Heat exchanger is part of a process whose product gets shipped to various places in the US. The majority though, goes to China, Mexico and other world wide locations to be installed in a consumer product.

You don’t hear a lot wining about "Trade" in this facility.

The point..... I guess Dan is correct, it’s a Global economy.

[Deleted User]

You may not hear alot of whining, but that doesn't make it right. The people will realize that the only beneficiaries of globalization are the people at the top. When we have no production capabilities left and we're slaves to the world, then the whining will begin. But we'll have about 300 million lawyers, accountants, and financial advisors... I can't be the only one that sees the potential for danger.

Rich Kontny_3

Our System

Is based on a bottom line mentality. If cheaper labor can do the same work over seas without regulations to protect the workers or environment. then that is where the manufacturing goes.

Investors want management to bring returns. How many iron and copper mines have been closed in this country?? The UAW workers are today's UMW(United Mine Workers) Can any of us truly blame the worker or management teams that seek profit?

WE are all part of the same food chain and our wages and benefits will soon erode also.The answer is not isolation as the United States has not done this throughout its history. The answer is a universal awareness of a better quality of life. This happened to us. Europe, Japan, South Korea and will continue to happen at a more rapid pace as globalization gets further entrenched.

Steve Ebels_3

Sal

> ...and the public starts to believe it.

>

> The

> wages of a janitor are nowhere close to $70 per

> hour. See this page for the

> facts:

>

> http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/do

> _auto_workers_really_make_more_than.html

>

> The

> UAW agreed to take an equity position so the

> Voluntary Employee Benefit Association (VEBA),

> which will provide retiree health benefits, might

> survive in post-bankrupcy Chrysler. The VEBA

> must begin paying those benefits next year. UAW

> president Ron Gettelfinger has stated that the

> union will not be a long-term majority owner

> since it will need to sell off stock to keep the

> VEBA adequately funded.

>

> I have no connection

> with the UAW, auto industry or any union.



This is true and not some urban legend. They actually interviewed a person on one of the Detroit TV stations that was making $74.50/hr for janitorial type work at one of the GM plants. That number includes benefits. She had been there for almost 30 years IIRC and was at the top of the pay scale.

Steve Ebels_3

Sal

This is true and not some urban legend. They actually interviewed a person on one of the Detroit TV stations that was making $74.50/hr for janitorial type work at one of the GM plants. That number includes benefits. She had been there for almost 30 years IIRC and was at the top of the pay scale.

Steve Ebels_3

No one can rationally deny.........

That we do in fact live in a global economy. The crux of the issue that we as a nation face is how to drag the rest of the world up to our level instead of being dragged down to their level.

And no! The answer does not lie in the much vaunted "service" sector. Just look at allllll the $$ our wonderful banks and investment houses made for us with their CDS's and derivative plays. Makes me want to strangle someone with my bare hands. Long term growth and real profit can not be made by shuffling paper to supposedly "produce" a new financial product. Neal Roubini's outfit reported today that they estimate the bad debt on the books of our banks nationally is somewhere around $3.6 Trillion dollars. This would mean that our entire banking system here in the US is insolvent.

Berkshire Hathaway just cashed in $5 billion in T-bills last week. They reported a profit of $90.70 on that investment. In other words the value of our T-bills is nearly worthless. China has reduced the amount of US debt they are buying on the credit markets substantially since January and it will soon begin to have an effect in the form of high interest rates for us. Inflation will be sure to follow unless someone in DC proves he can in fact walk on water. I'm getting tired of the current crop of neophytes running our economy further and further into the ground.

Doesn't anyone realize that you can't borrow your way out of debt?

Time to go take my anti-grumpy old man medicine.

DanHolohan

Once again,

a recommendation that everyone read Hot, Flat and Crowded. As the rest of the world comes up to our standards, the demand for all that we have becomes that much greater, and the supply shrinks as a result. I'm simplifying it, of course.

It's an important book

DanHolohan

Guys,

after 30 years, how much should this person be making?

What if someone else (customers?) begins to decide that you make too much because they don't value your services.

The plumber protects the health of the nation.

Perhaps the janitor protects the health of the plant workers?

Just something to consider. I get a bit annoyed when others start telling me what I should be making in America. Maybe you feel the same.

Mad Dog_2

Too many

That I have come across...We've always offered generous pay and flexibility....doesn't matter...never seems to be enough. My opinion is that most Americans are leveraged out the wazoo, live WAY above our means, and EXPECT the best of everything. Many are willing to work for it at any cost, but a rapidly growing group feel ENTITLED, whether they take any risk or sacrifice. I liked that observation about Teenagers slowing down when a car comes...or even kids in the street playing ball...giving you that look...HOW DARE YOU interupt our game. America is in for a rude Awakening WHEN we finally hit the wall. Very Sad, but we have to get back to basics...in every way. This is a time of major readjustment...I have faith, but it will be a very rough road. Mad Dog

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hot_rod

Hot Flat and Crowded on CD

I have it in my truck and Max and I listened to it on a recent raod trip. I do better with CDs than books

hr

MIke_Jonas

Lots o' responses, but......

What happened to the original poster?

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Jim Pompetti

If you

look on your income tax forms. There is a DOMESTIC PRODUCTION DEDUCTION . But we can not make everything we need in the US without importing some raw materials. One hand washes the other .American tech knowledge does not lead the world. The interverter compressor is one example .

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jp_2

Dan

maybe not the wages BUT:

I've been in auto supply plants all over the country, from mich to south carolina to oklahoma and canada. I didn't walk through but worked on the floor for days and weeks.

the UAW workers tended to be the most UN-friendly group I ran into, they also just happened to be paid the most.....

DanHolohan

If we base wages

on friendliness, I think a lot of people will be in trouble.

Andrew Hagen_2

Wages

That reminds me of a quote from Caddyshack.

Judge Smails: Ty, what did you shoot today?

Ty Webb: Oh, Judge, I don't keep score.

Judge Smails: Then how do you measure yourself with other golfers?

Ty Webb: By height.

---------------

Just for reference, I know of engineering firms that base their salaries on what the average is in the region, rather than on merit, value, or skills. Imagine if every firm did that? Imagine if every industry did that? Imagine knowing that no matter how well you performed at your job or how hard you worked to better yourself, the best you could do is maintain the industry average salary. You end up working as hard as Peter Gibbons in Office Space where he works only hard enough to keep from getting fired.

[Deleted User]

\"This is true and not some urban legend.\"

But how do we know it's true? Did the person interviewed state that $74.50 was the value of their hourly wage plus direct benefits as someone at the top of that janitorial scale? If so, were they really cognizant of the facts? Was someone from the employer's HR department also interviewed who quoted $74.50 per hour? Either way, I'm betting the figure includes an allocation of retiree benefits for *all* UAW retirees, not just the actual benefit costs for that janitor. Still part of the propaganda...

Unknown

Just downloaded

" Hot , Flat and Crowded " to my Kindle . I'll read it over the weekend .

Any plans on offering your books on the Kindle , Dan ?

DanHolohan

No plans for that, Ron.

Isn't Kindle great?

Jim_64

Made where?

I had an experience similar to wrench puller a few years ago. I needed a 12V compressor to carry in my van. The box was labeled "Made In USA". It lasted for a couple of uses then failed. I disassembled it and found that the actual compressor was made in China, the pressure gauge was made in Taiwan. Maybe the box was made in USA?

A few years ago some of our neighboring town committees decided they would only buy American for their new equipment. The quandry? The John Deere tractor was not made in USA, the Honda mower was, and so on.

Andrew Hagen_2

Deere

I spent a summer working at the John Deere product engineering center in Waterloo, Iowa a little over a decade ago, and my project was testing of fuel injection pumps made in the Czech Republic. They were to replace the injection pumps they were using from Japan. Really, no difference other than the Czech pumps cost less.

Not to rip on Deere. Having grown up on a large wheat farm, and after that experience, I can't say enough good things about the Deere Company.

Unknown

It's great

I average about a book a week and find myself reading faster with the Kindle than with paper books . I'm kinda PO'd they just came out with the larger DX model without any hint it was on the horizon ( just got the smaller one last month and woulda waited ........ ) .

Rich Kontny_3

How Many

Jobs are going to be displaced by the Kindle????Technology such as this has hurt as much as overseas cheap labor. THE internet has elevated people around he world in computer related jobs and in CSR positions.

Yes the only answer is improving the quality of life.