Does this 2pipe need a steme trap?

Todd_33

I recently bought a 1920's steam heated 9 unit building with poorly maintained boiler system. Trying to coax the heating system to best performance without replacing.

It's mostly 1 pipe but a couple of apartments have these curious setups (see pics) Looks like 2 pipe but have 1pipe vents and no steam traps. Seem to have a partially complete thermostatic control on the valve side. Whatever these are, I'd like them to work properly. What do I need to replace to ensure that they will work?

clammy

maybe old trv

Toad from the looks of that valve it could be a very old trv see if on the back side ofthe valve has a stamp ,it looks like a fulton sysphon trv i recently have ran into this probalbly from the early 20 ,they are not made any more except you can still use any supply valve with a trv ,macon and maybe danfoss .I would check the return and see if the each rads return is seperatly ran to a wet return ,even though there 's no trap i would check the ell ,if most of the building is single pipe they may have just ran that return to help get rid of the condensate ,i would say that the system did probalby ran low pressure .does this system have a condensate pump or is it a gravity return (no pump)One more though is that they just direct pipe it to save on repairing or replacing the trap or the trap maybe remotely located in basement have seen this to .What type of boiler and it ratings ,oil gas ect and what type of promblems are you having ,if it has not been maintaned then i would start with checking end of the line drip traps , location of main vents,chk for a cross over trap ,and check for proper operation of all the rad vents which could be replaced with single pipe trv ,flushing of returns ,cycle time until burner shuts off on pressure,connective raditor load EDR and firing rate of boiler to make sure the boiler is not over or under sized also what kind of pressure are you running at ,hope this helps peace and good luck clammy

Jamie Hall

Clammy's list

is pretty inclusive -- no surprise! Do check to see where the condensate from those two radiators goes and how it gets there. As Clammy notes, there may be an orifice in the outlet elbows of those two radiators. Otherwise, if they go directly to a wet return shouldn't be a problem. Do keep the pressure low...

Todd_33

2 pipe

Thanks for the input fellows. Based o Dan's books I did reduce pressure on pressuretrol to start at 1/2lb with less than 1lb diff. As near as possible on the old pressuretrol.

Gravity feed - former coal then oil now gas - 950000 btu. Leaky header ( 5 gallons every 2-3 dys). One remote sensor wired to thermostat in boiler room. Outside sensor as well.

I think the condesate does run into the wet return. More than one rad inputs that return but I don't see where live steam could get in except through rad. I replaced several rad vents with varivalves. Will do more as I can access apartments. Replaced one Gorton #2 out of 4. Will do next 3 soon. The apartment above my office was cold so to monitor I bought a wireless Taylor remote sensor with base. $16 on clearance Target on-line. Seems to work pretty good.

So, Clammy, you think those are TRVs? So what do I do, just replace them and the one-pipe vents aand forget steam traps? Would it be worth looking into those elbows for the orifice, or just wait and see what happens.

I'm basically trying to learn the system and get as many components working as is reasonable. Hoping to balance and lower the heating bill. $1900 in January alone for 7 1 bedroom and 2 1000sq ft commercial! Ouch, didn't expect that... The gorton #2 seemed to fix the cool apartment issue.

Thanks a bunch - Todd

Steamhead (in transit)

As long as

that rad drains into a wet return, you should be fine. The TRV will work OK- Tunstall could probably supply parts for it.

If it drains into a dry return, steam could jump into the return of another radiator unless you keep the pressure low- as in Vaporstat territory. In this case, the proper TRV is the type that replaces the air vent.

And you've already seen what a Gorton #2 can do!

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