steam radiator help

Kool Rod

Hi- You might want to take a look at this link which is a page on this site:

http://www.heatinghelp.com/steam_problems.cfm

Take a look at the section on "Problems that Plague All Steam Systems" and then scroll down the page to "Problems that Plague 2 Pipe Steam Systems" and then to sub heading "There's No Heat in Part of the System". That should put you on the right track.

- Rod

sunnyside steamer

bedroom radiator not getting HOT

I have a Rheem boiler heating a 2 pipe steam system. The two upstairs radiators have 1 supply line that comes off the main in the basement. One room the radiator seems to work perfect, all the fins are hot and it is quite as a mouse. However, in the other room the radiator does not heat up and get hot. Only the top of the fins seem to get hot and the supply line seems to gurgle a bit. I replaced the air vent but that did not change anything. This is a fairly small system.. there are a total of 5 radiators. Any suggestions on troubleshooting this would be warmly received. It is the dead of winter up in MN and I could use a little more heat in my room.

sunnyside steamer

steam traps instead of air vents

thanks Rod, after reading the info i would check that trap first, sounds like the problem im having. Also, my traps say Hoffman Specialty No. 8 on them. Can you tell me what kind of trap this is (mechanical, thermostatic..)? One other bit of info that concerns me is "In two-pipe systems, you have steam traps on the radiators instead of air vents." What if you have both steam traps and air vents? All my radiators are setup this way. Could this cause problems? Also, if the trap on this radiator is stuck closed would the air vent leak a lot? Mine seems to be functioning normally. Thank you !!
-Tyler

Supply House Rick

1 gets hot-1 gets not

check the pitch of the rads with a level. both should slope slightly towards the return pipe. if they share the same supply riser, then it is possible that one radiator has subsided, tilting, and creating a puddle in the pipe which the steam has trouble getting through. to fix that raise up the lower radiator, and put a couple of quarters under each leg to re-tilt the pipe. a long crowbar could be used for this purpose, lifting only high enough to get the quarter under the foot.

another possibility could be a steam trap in the non-functioning radiator return which is non working, however that would be a pro-job to replace the insides.-nbc

Jamie Hall

If...

it really is a two pipe system, and there are main vents on the returns, the individual radiators don't need vents -- although they won't hurt anything. If you don't have main vents, you need them...

And assuming that there are traps on the outlets to the radiators... and assuming that one of them is stuck closed, or nearly closed, what is going to happen? Any steam that gets into that radiator -- and a small amount will -- will condense... but the condensate will have no place to go, other than back out the way it came in, since it can't go out the outlet through the trap! (or, more likely, it might be able to leak a little through the trap, but not much). So... I would expect that radiator just might be full of water! Just sitting there, ready to splurk all over the floor when you start to take the trap apart. Be warned. The small amount of condensate trying to go back down the inlet would, indeed gurgle a little.

sunnyside steamer

two pipe system

Yes, this is truly a two pipe sysytem and the main does not have a vent so that would explain why the rads all have them.

There are traps on each radiator. They are Hoffman Specialty Co. No. 8's. I think you nailed it when you say a small amount of condensate is gurgling in the inlet trying to go back down. Are these traps difficult to repair/replace? I am a handy guy and have access to all the tools, but have not done much in the way of plumbing.

Is this something I should have fixed right away or could I wait till summer when i don't need the heat to tackle this with a plumber? I had a "Knucklehead" over already who had no clue how to troubleshoot my system. He just gave me a new air vent and thought that should fix it.

-Tyler

sunnyside steamer

pitch is good

i have checked the pitch and it looks fine.

sunnyside steamer

two pipe system

Yes, this is truly a two pipe sysytem and the main does not have a vent so that would explain why the rads all have them.

There are traps on each radiator. They are Hoffman Specialty Co. No. 8's. I think Jamie nailed it when he said a small amount of condensate is gurgling in the inlet trying to go back down. Are these traps difficult to repair/replace? I am a handy guy and have access to all the tools, but have not done much in the way of plumbing.

Is this something I should have fixed right away or could I wait till summer when i don't need the heat to tackle this with a plumber? I had a "Knucklehead" over already who had no clue how to troubleshoot my system. He just gave me a new air vent and thought that should fix it.

-Tyler

Steamhead (in transit)

That's Vapor

specifically, Hoffman "Controlled Heat" vapor. We rarely find Hoffman #8 traps on anything else.

On that system, the mains are usually vented by radiator traps piped between the ends of the steam mains and the dry returns. These let air pass from the mains into the dry returns but close when steam reaches them. Or at least they do if they're working.

In the boiler room, you probably have either a Differential Loop or a Return Trap. If the former, the air vent is located on top of this unit. If the latter, there is a separate air eliminator trap where the dry returns come together.

If you don't see any of these, and there's no air vent on the dry return, the system has been knuckleheaded. The first step in that case is to vent the dry return, remove the vents on the radiators and plug their openings. Then check for bad traps.

"Steamhead"

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sunnyside steamer

vapor?

So this is not a steam system? I did find a trap on the end of the main.. so no worries there.

Jamie nailed it when he said a small amount of condensate is gurgling in the inlet trying to go back down. Can I find parts for a the Hoffman Specialty Co. No. 8 traps? Are these traps difficult to repair/replace? I am a handy guy and have access to all the tools, but have only worked on newer plumbing (pvc, pex, etc.).

Is this something I should have fixed right away or could I wait till summer when i don't need the heat to tackle this with a plumber?

Thank you,

Tyler

Jamie Hall

yes and no/yes/no/maybe

Yes and no -- vapour systems are a sort of subset of steam systems, distinguished by running at very very low pressure (typically around 5 to 12 ounces per square inch -- no more -- something you might want to check) -- so yes it is a steam system, but a special kind.

Yes, parts for the Hoffman traps are easy to find -- try State Supply (www.statesupply.com) for starters. They're nice accomodating folks. There are other places, too, though. Whole replacement traps can be had there, too, but I doubt you'll need to replace the body.

And no, they aren't difficult to repair, although you may find that getting the cover off the trap is a bit of a chore. I strongly recommend backing up with a wrench on the body of the trap while reefing on the cover, and a big crescent wrench will do less damage to things than a pipe wrench. And BE PREPARED: you get that cover loose, and you may have a messy flood.

Should you wait 'til summer? Who am I to say? How cold are you?!!!

Steamhead (in transit)

But did you find

any of the other hardware I mentioned?

Take pics and post them here if you're not sure.

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