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Solar & huge useage pool, seattle????

Mark Custis
Mark Custis Member Posts: 537
in THE MAIN WALL
I got an email from RETscreen about a software up date. If you haven't looked at it yet please do so.

I was very disappointed in solar yield as it is currently available. RETscreen helped change my thinking.

Comments

  • tim smith
    tim smith Member Posts: 2,807
    Solar & huge useage pool, seattle????

    I thought that maybe this customer of ours pool would be a perfect fit for solar savings. 60x13 pool, uncovered, 91 degrees. Man does it use gas.. He cannot get his wife to let him put a cover on it and it is ran year around. Can you say large carbon foot print. I thought I would look into solar for it, he is game. Perfect flat roof area facing south to put panels on. Well, I looked into solar panels, albeit not a lot of area to put them. 16ft long area with 6ft long panels or tubes. The way it laid out, the rep ran it on his program and depending on # of tubes, 60 to 80 or 4 flat panels it would produce between 20 million and 30 million btus annually. Sounds impressive put that way. Now boil it down, that is between 200 and 300 therms of gas a year. I was shocked at how little we would get out of it. That is between $260 & $390 yr savings. At somewhere's over 10k to do job depending on tubes or plates it just does not make sense. Also I would not be surprised if there is more carbon produced to make the equipment than what is saved from the install. I just could not justify this. Feedback is appreciated and I am sure there will be some. Thanks, Tim
  • jp_2
    jp_2 Member Posts: 1,935
    plastic solar panels

    doesn't surprise me in seattle.

    what about the simple plastic solar panels for pools?

    automated pool cover?

    what can you do when the customer refuses the simplest most cost effective way to solve the problem?(pool cover) then just walk away......
  • Josh M.
    Josh M. Member Posts: 359


    Tim,

    Stop by my office, I have TSOL and have done allot of pool payback analysis. I'm distracted right now but those numbers don't seem right.

    Currently we're doing a 140 tube system and another 7 flat plates for a gigantic pool in Issaquah. Thee payback pencils very well.
  • Josh M.
    Josh M. Member Posts: 359


    I wouldn't trust RETSCREEN. How can you trust them if you can't see their assumptions. After doing BTU monitoring on a few jobs, we found RETSCREEN to be off by 20% in most cases. TSOL on the other hand, has been fairly accurate. I must say though, that is only after one year of monitoring.
  • Theealchemist
    Theealchemist Member Posts: 59
    Solar & huge useage pool, seattle????

    Josh. I'm comparing TSOL and RETScreen at the moment. Do you feel RETScren is 20% Higher or Lower?
  • tim smith
    tim smith Member Posts: 2,807
    Josh, I looked on solar panel websites and then had it

    ran on tsol. Pretty close to same #s. Tim
  • Josh M.
    Josh M. Member Posts: 359


    I'm guessing Viessmann then? Who ran the sims?
  • Mark Custis
    Mark Custis Member Posts: 537
    I googled TSOL

    and came up with a rock band.

    I am sure they can turn up the heat, but.......
  • Mark Eatherton
    Mark Eatherton Member Posts: 5,858
    Consider...

    a LIQUID pool cover. Reduces energy consumption by up to 50%.

    http://www.flexiblesolutions.com/

    Also, seeings as how you're up where it rarely gets below freezing, consider using an air source heat pump with a titanium HXer to heat the pool.

    Running with a COP of 5:1 has to be cheaper per therm than an 80% efficient boiler..

    ME

    There was an error rendering this rich post.

  • Josh M.
    Josh M. Member Posts: 359


    Not really, they sing about neckrophilia.
  • Mark Custis
    Mark Custis Member Posts: 537
    Thanks Josh

    That helps me without having to listen.
  • Mike Thomas_2
    Mike Thomas_2 Member Posts: 109
    40%

    Our experience with liquid pool cover is more like 40%. Automatic cover will get 70%. Heat Siphon makes a great air to water heat pump. Has nice website to help size things...
  • Bob Gagnon plumbing and heating
    Bob Gagnon plumbing and heating Member Posts: 1,373
    Solar Pool Heating

    I think it probably has the quickest payback because you have a year round low temperature load. It is simply a lot easier to make 85 degree water, and at those low temperatures flat panels would be very effective. I have a customer that years ago put in a couple of the cheap unglazed collectors and he was very happy with the performance, he never used his cover after that. There was an article recently on pool heating, I think maybe in Solar Today or PM Magazine. It was in a public school and they had a sucussful install with a short payback. The only problem is I don't think renewable energy tax credits would be applicable.

    Thanks, Bob Gagnon

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