chimney guys

Bob Bona_4

Here we go, again.

Wrapped a furnasty/OWH conversion to hydroair last week. Buderus WS4/Reillo/ST200. 80 year old interior mason chimney. I had warned the HO, and the GC that a liner is a good thing, low stack temps, condensation, critical draft requirements, yada yada.

Sure enough, on berler start up, we have flame drop. Go through the motions- pump check out, nozzle, burner settings, etc. Have to lock open the baro and cut air down to 13-14% CO2 to get a stable fire. 0 smoke..for now. HO and GC both see the issues. I stress liner again, they say they will call a chimney co. "for inspection". I had no referrals for that area.

Yesterday, an unmarked van with the "chimney" professional comes to "clean" the chimney. Over the phone, I'm told that he said the chimney was dirty, the flue was "fine" and the draft was "good". He advised a draft inducer however, and it's the boiler that has problems. On a new Buderus. On a three story flue, with the boiler 2 feet from the thimble. Right. When I asked what the draft reading was, I got no answer. (I have yet to see a chimney man carry a manometer). What about the eventual deterioration of the flue tiles, I ask? "the chimney guy said it was fine" was the answer.

Now their boiler has been branded a POS, why did they never had problems like this with their old TPride furnasty, why didn't I put in a better boiler. When offered to have a Buderus rep come down from the factory, they refused and said all he would do is blame the chimney, and they wanted an unbiased opinion from someone else. Mmkay?

All because of the chimney guy. Who lost a sale of a liner, because he knows better.

Bob Harper

levels of competency

Bob, every industry has its hacks and there is no shortage in the chimney industry.

What you want to insist on is a chimney pro who is certified to inspect chimneys and have them perform a Level II inspection. It must be suitable for the class of service, not based upon his personal opinion but industry standards. That includes sizing and Buderus typically requires smaller liners regardless of the condition of the flue.

I'm puzzled though because you said you block the baro. wide open, which would reduce--not increase draft. Which is it?

Most sweeps I know only set the draft once they have relined a flue. Seldom do they perform combustion analysis or draft tests. There is a difference btw a "chimney sweep" and a "chimney contractor" or "chimney professional".

What area do you operate in? I may be able to make a recommendation.
Bob

Bob Bona_4

Hi Bob

Thanks for the info! I will adopt that requirement in the future.

Baro is open to reduce OF draft and keep flame on retention head and as stable as possible. Was looking for 0 to +.01. Pipe would vary from -.02 to -.04, and who knows when the winds pick up and I'm not there to see it. Chimney has slate top, can't say if it even HAS a tile liner. Old units were running black, base was full of soot, no drop in base. They were pulling overhead line, 3/8 copper 2 pipe, and looked to have had history of issues due to the piles of Odor Kill powder around the assorted unneeded check valves and fittings at old burners. Went w/ a Tiger Loop/one pipe to make that right.

Come to think of it, I will take a closer look at combustion air. Basement is open,old, big,and leaky, with several crawlpaces. There is an addition going on and the basement was open to the new addition basement, which had the subfloor open to the outside. Comb air, by seat of the pants, did not seem to be an issue, especially considering there were two units w/ larger GPH inputs before and testing was done with a giant hole to the outside. But,as you know, crawls can be sneaky regarding their actual volume, and I'm going to do an analysis as to what will exist once it's all closed up.

Job is in Wilton, CT. I could use a referral, as I haven't been happy with the outfits that I have worked with before.

Wouldn't expect or even want the chimney people testing combustion, but would expect them to stick a manometer in the smokepipe to see what draft reading they are getting. Otherwise they would be driving blind. One thing that makes my blood boil is hearing how they see smoke from a match draw up the flue and proclaim the chimney is fine.

Bob Harper

Bob to Bob

United States
Connecticut

Middletown, CT 06457
Dennis Bishop
Clean Sweep Chimney Service
860-347-3895
email: cleansweepchimney@earthlink.net
Web: www.cleansweepchimneyservice.com

Windsor, CT 06095
Marisa Chirico
Chimney Works of CT
Tel / 860-978-8443
Email: marisachirico@sbcglobal.net

Bob, these are the only two Certified Fireplace Fnspectors in Conn but I would check them out. If one of them was the one who proclaimed it ok, please let me know.

To keep a low OF without killing the breech draft, you may want to cut a flue restrictor orifice plate into the stack just off the appliance collar before the baro. I love my Bud.

More and more chimney pros are taking the NCI CO/Combustion cert. including me so hopefully, you will see a rise in combustion testing that is performed pre & post liners and is done properly. They would still call you for adjustments but it does provide a baseline to compare with.

Let us know how you make out.
HTH,
Bob

ChasMan

Restrictor Plates

These restrictor plates, and how to construct them are mentioned in The Riello Handbook as well. Don't they sort of negate code which states that the flue can be no smaller than the appliance connector? I mean, are we not just hacking down the effective cross sectional area of the flue? And right inside the building too. Reference to these is made in a few boiler reference manuals and it shows up in wood burning books a lot. I supose if it works it works.

Jamie Hall

Bob -- You might try

3G Chimney in Torrington, CT, too (860.489.0700). I've had very good luck with them over the years.

Bob Bona_4

thank you

will follow up w/ them Monday.

That is very encouraging. Now for the ugly scene at Wilton trying to regain credibilty.

Paul Fredricks_9

Try Connecticut Chimney and Vent out of Oxford. The guy is jim Jaffe. Really knows his stuff. Holds an S-2. This guy trains a lot of the town inspectors. Very good.

Bob Bona_4

will do Paul, nm