Electric space heaters versus steam

nicholas bonham-carter

new outlets are not new circuits necessarily-make sure your renters and LIFE insurance are up to snuff!--nbc

Anonymous Dave

Electric space heaters versus steam

Our apartment, the second story of a two-family house built in the days of the Dead Men, has a steam system that is seriously out of whack. From what I have read here, I can tell that we need to get a pro out here - if it were my place, I'd do it myself, but it isn't, and I would be liable for any cost or problems. The trouble is, our landlords are seriously cheap, and they like to solve problems by sending over their 90 year old father-in-law the retired plumber, who is a very nice guy, but also a knucklehead from the era of the Dead Men. So, as our natural gas bills rise (almost $300 last month for THREE WEEKS of heat for a 2 bedroom apartment!) we are starting to think strategy.

Two months ago, we bought a 1500 watt electric ceramic space heater for our bedroom, and have been setting its thermostat at 68 overnight and turning the steam system down to the low 50s. This works great to keep our bedroom warm, and our electric bills only went up to about $10 more than when we were using A/C. Total electric cost with 9 hours per day of space heater = about $95. So, does anyone here have experience with using these units as whole house solutions? Even if buying two more shot our electricity cost up to $250 per month, we could shut the heat down to the lowest possible setting and basically only use the natural gas for cooking and hot water, which cost about $40 per month in the summer. Our total cost would go down by $100 per month if that was true. Any thoughts?

P.S. I work from home, so some form of heat is needed almost around the clock. My previous strategy involved turning the steam system up to 90 for about 90 minutes in the morning, which made the place just over comfortably warm. This would make the system retain heat until mid afternoon, when I would repeat the process. That was cheaper than just setting the digital thermostat at a reasonable temperature during the day...

Unknown

Dave you get

3.41 btus per watt (even if you use the secret amish heater LOL). Electric is 100% efficient.Here is a calculator for you to do your own math.
I find the oil filled heaters that look like radiators are as good as any. If you go this route make sure you use dedicated circuits on the heaters to be safe.
http://hearth.com/econtent/index.php/articles/fuel_cost_comparison_calculator/

TONY

Perry_5

3 issues to address

1) Your electrical system. While most older home wiring and supply system (do you have a 60 amp, 100 amp, etc) supply can handle a single or a few electric heaters - most systems cannot handle heating the whole house on it. If you have an older house I suspect you are in for some rewiring (and I would ensure that the wire is modern enough to handle your current electric heater.

2) Adequate air exchange. Some people in their quest to save energy to make electric work seal up their house too tight... If you are to have adequate air exchange you restrict your abilities to seal and insulate unless you are going to install appropriate air exchange units. Being you are in a rental.... I doubt you will do that.

3) Adequate space for all the space heaters. Yes, most new design electric space heaters are not supposed to cause burns and fires. But they still need to be far enough from household stuff to not cause a problem and work adequtely. I have a partially melted briefcase from an electric heater which was a foot or so from the briefcase.


Overall. Long term I suggest you find another place to live - one where either the place is properly constructed or maintained - or one that you own so you can properely fix it up. Lots of cheap housing is coming on the market. Personally I would tend to stay away from the late 60's to current construction unless you really know how the building was built. In more than one area of the country the houses built between 1930 and mid 1960 are in much better shape than the houses built in the late 60's through the 80's (and the newer houses may not have aged enough to show their problems).

Perry

Perry_5

Duplicate posting

Sorry, duplicate posting - text deleted

nicholas bonham-carter

steam probs

why not at least diagnose the problems with the steam.probably the addition of new vents on the mains would be the most serious expence.that and turning down the pressure would ensure greater longevity in the boiler, which i presume would be of interest to your landlord, and the other tennants.

check the venting,pressure, and the thermostat anticipator.

unfortunately the electric wiring in old houses is not up to much amperage, so the heaters might be unsafe, which would also be of interest to your landlord!

why not give him a choice of either making the boiler work better[ and last longer], or testing out how good the wiring [and fire insurance] is? maybe in this case "cheap" doesn't mean unwilling to invest in safety and longevity.after all, he will be paying that bill if you are forced to move out.--nbc

Jamie Hall

electric wiring

nbc is right on -- first thing to do is do as much as you can for the steam system. Which given the situation may not be that much.

I would be in serious doubt about the capability of your electrical system, unless it is really up to date -- which seems unlikely. First, it is quite likely that the sockets may not be properly grounded. If they are three prong, get a tester -- they're cheap -- and check. If they're two prong, they're not, or if the tester indicates they're not good, they're not. And not safe with a heater (in my view, at least). Second, check the fusing vs. the wire size. Can't tell you how often I've seen circuits over-fused (typically 20 amp fuses on what should be a 15 amp circuit). If you are in any doubt at all about this, use NO MORE THAN ONE space heater on each circuit (not each plug -- each circuit).

Keep all combustibles at least 3 feet from the heaters, no matter what they say.

And stay safe.

Anonymous Dave

Thanks for all the suggestions!

I did convince our landlord to send a legit plumbing and heating service here in the next week or so, and based on all I have read here I think there is likely a main vent issue. I appreciate all of the fast responses! I will cross my fingers and hope the guys who come here are familiar with steam systems. If that falls through, the electric outlets were all brought up to code two months ago, and I was here when the electrician was doing the work, properly. So I think that I will try the heaters out if the steam problem can't be solved within our landlord's cost ceiling on repairs. In the meantime, back to the old method of running the furnace constantly for 90 minutes and then turning it off for several hours...

Anonymous Dave

Wiring

The electrician did also make sure there was at least one 15 amp circuit per room in the house, in addition to adding grounded outlets in all rooms. So, although I hope not to need to try the electric heaters, at least I am confident that it would be safe - and I wouldn't run more than one at a time anyway. One for the bedroom, one for the living room, one for the office.

Anonymous Dave

Cost question

Knowing that there will probably come a price point at which our landlord will decide not to do any work, do you guys have an idea of what the cost of installing new main vents and cleaning out four radiators would be? Just curious what ballpark I could expect, and I know there are a lot of factors that can change the number quite a bit.

Perry_5

What the electrition did not tell you

OK, so there is at least one 15 amp circuit per room....

But, how old and what type and size is the wiring.... What size and type is the electrical service to the house. I would be very surprised if it was up to electric heating of the house.

I agree -- if you go this route: Make sure your renters insurance is up to snuff. Make sure your life insurance is up to snuff. Also, compile you most important papers and items and store them offsite.

Electrical heating can be done very efficiently - as part of new construction or a major retrofit. I once retrofitted off peak electrical heating into a 80 year old house. It had its own dedicated 200 amp panel, electrical meeter, and all new 8 or 10 guage wiring to the heating units.

Another suggestion: Why don't you ask here on this site who is a good steam guy in your area - and then provide that name to your landlord as the right person to have service your system.

Perry

nicholas bonham-carter

cost of mair vents

http://www.pexsupply.com/CategoryPre.asp?cID=300&brandid=

main air vents price range is about $20-50 to purchase; and you can install them yourself.radiator vents are about $10, ditto.gorton and hoffman are the quality mfgs.

you can leave the cleaning of the radiators to the last, and they may never need it, as condensate is "washing" them constantly.

with new main vents, and pressure as low as you can go, you may find not all the radiator vents need replacement. i still have old hoffmans from the 70's in working condition on some radiators.

there is the remote possibility that the boiler piping may have been incorrectly installed [whenever], and that too much water is being flung up with the steam.

i would choose the vents as the place to start.--nbc