Oil HW Furnace draft/flue shuddering

TJ_5

furnace??

"Hi, I have an oil furnace of unknown origin & vintage. I would guess it is about 20 years old. The only name I can find on it is "Carlton," on the burner. The furnace heats the house via hot water baseboard."

Well which is it. Furnace (hot air) or boiler (hot water baseboard)

Techman

Chris

I think a phone call to the oil co.and complaining to the owner or service manager about the REPEATED service calls,and lack of heat/hot water AGAIN, and you have PAID for the service call's ,1-2-3 times is NOT acceptable.Yes, there are incompetences in every profession .A basic course or a basic book would work wonders in giving you a clear understanding of how the oil system works.Then you would realize that cleaning the electrodes more than once a year is not right.Again ,no dis meant or intended.Your knowledge and skills of a boiler can grow .That's how mine have developed,and after 40 years I'm still learning.Again. Good Luck!

tommyoil

Whats more telling....

is your reliance on the previous adjustments. By your own admission, the last tech (who YOU deemed incompetent) set the burner up to spec. How incompetent can he be if you are now relying on his expertise? I, and many here, have driven down Chris Leger road a thousand times and its always invariably a dead end. You're the guy who always feels ripped off, or that someone has done you wrong. Or the heat is too hot, or its not hot enough, or its too fast or too slow, or too much, or not enough and on and on. I am a temporary target on your warped radar screen because I failed to tell you what you wanted to hear. Get over it. I know that for a guy like you being wrong is tough to swallow. Surely I too could train a 12 year old to service his own burner. I could also teach a monkey to unclog a fuel line. Either way, when I was done, both could come and teach you right from wrong and NEITHER would dismiss the value of combustion analysis. Of that I'm sure. In typical engineer fashion, you refuse to even entertain the idea that what you have done could POSSIBLY be wrong or worse UNSAFE. Try to grasp the big picture. Your approach is considered unsafe by any industry standard. Your refusal to accept that is both scary and almost unbelievable considering your position as an "engineer". I guess all occupations have incompetent hacks. Why would yours be any different.

Serge

I agree with him.

There are very very good and smart techs. Then there are those that don't know....well...very much. I wrote here once before because I thought the problem with my boiler was that the expansion tank wasn't big enough. I got some good advice. Then I called a specialist to come out, look over the system, and I suggested to replace the expansion tank. "No, no, no, no. That's not the problem." etc. Then they replaced the pressure release valve on my hydronic system with a 125 psi (instead of 30) and declared the problem fixed. Called them out again, still didn't replace the expansion tank. Then I ordered the tank online, replaced it myself, and problem fixed.

There are great, excellent people in every profession. Then there are those that aren't so good. There do seem to be some techs in this business who probably shouldn't be.

Bob Harper

Age of DIY

Many guys feel handy and mechanically inclined. Add to that tight economic times and they try to effect repairs or service they normally might not have tried. So, if you got it working, what's the big deal? Afterall Chris, as you said, you didn't really change anything from what it was, right?

Chris, I am not an oil tech or DIY homeowner. I am a former factory rep. for a fireplace mfr. and now install and service them along with teaching service and certification courses. There are many reasons to have a qualified technician do the service other than just "fixing the problem". For one, most mfrs. require annual service by a "qualified technician" to maintain the warranty. Should anything go wrong, I assure you the mfrs. of the boiler, burner, controls, etc. will all gang up to pin it on your tamperings as the "proximate cause".
You base your assumptions upon faulty information. You assume everything is ok simply because, in your layman's eyes, it is running ok. However, subtle changes in the setup such as the draft can lead to permanent damage and premature failure of the unit. The distance the gun is set into the boiler can be critical. Running the unit with a partially clogged nozzle may underfire it causing soot and CO production. The industry std. is to replace nozzles annually--not clean them because what clogs them may not be visible to the naked eye--esp. an untrained one.

Chris, I have to say that as a frequent DIY'er around my house, I pay for annual service so I have a log of repairs should anything go wrong. Also, I respect the competency of the techs until proven otherwise. I have educated myself as to what a typical service should include and discuss it with the service company before they come. I know they get their parts from supply houses and not mass merchants or God knows where. I know when they vacuum the boiler out, they use a HEPA vacuum so it doesn't blow soot all over my house. BTW, if your boiler was set up to the original specs. then why is it gunked up with soot? Still not right...

Back in the day, a lot of guys would do tune ups on our cars--plugs, points, condenser, dwell, timing, valve lash, etc. Nowadays, I wouldn't dare touch my engine. Owning a home carries responsibility to maintain that home so it is safe for the occupants and guests. If you cannot afford to maintain your home, you need to think about buying a cheaper home that you can afford to maintain. HVAC is NOT a DIY sport. You can shorten the life of your equipment, cause premature failure of components, induce callbacks and more problems and potentially put the occupants at risk from fire, smoke, CO, noxious fumes, or explosion. Also, your warranties may be voided.

Find a way to save up and get a qualified tech in there asap. Meanwhile, educate yourself on what is involved with oil service so you can ask intelligent questions as to what equipment they carry and their checklist of points.

HTH,
Bob

Chris Leger

What a load.

Just because you can't service your own car doesn't mean it can't or shouldn't be done. Millions do it every day. There are guys working down at the local Firestone or JiffyLube or wherever with ASE certs hanging on the wall that I wouldn't let near any of my vehicles, despite the risk that an engine failure in my boat might mean a very slow trip to Greenland, or being smashed/macerated to bits on my motorcycle. Or even that one or several of my family or my (*gasp*) guests might be injured, maimed or killed in my car.

That a fireplace installer is baffled by his car is not so surprising. The points, condenser, etc, that you mention disappeared from under the hoods of most new cars over 30 years ago. And yet, fundamentally, today's cars are not that different from the cars of 30 years ago, and can still be repaired and maintained in the backyard in most cases by people of average (or lower) intelligence, without specialised tools or expensive diagnostic equipment.

Still, I won't fault you for getting confused upon looking under the hood - the average car of even 30 years ago was many, many times more complex and sophisticated than any of the furnaces I have owned. And automotive technology advances constantly, unlike my 20-25 year-old furnace, that, itself, changes practically not-at-all, and that is practically the same, right down to the color of the gaskets and the bin they pick the bolts from, as the furnace I'd be sold today if I were to buy a new one.

That helps (partly) to explain why fireplace installers like you are best-off using professional (perhaps even "ASE Certified") mechanics when their car makes a noise they can't explain, or when the manufacturer's maintenance schedule calls for service (remember to replace your belts, hoses and fuel filter annually, BTW.)

In saying good-bye, I must tell you that I didn't realise what I had stumbled upon when I first visited this forum. I know now that it's a very special place, indeed.

Thanks once again to those who offered constructive feedback.

Bob Harper

some people you just can't reach

Chris, you know what I call nuts like you?

Job Security.

When you blow up or burn down your house, guys like me will be there consulting with the Cause and Orgin Investigators because you just cannot listen to professional advice. You cannot help yourself. I have read from many other DIYers on these sites who think they, too have it all figured out. When the pros try to explain there is more to it than they realized, they, like you, resort to personal attacks.

I'll be looking for you in my daily Google Alerts....

burnerman_2

had a guy just like YOU

I have been doing this 20 yrs, so i am a little expericed. A few years ago got a call ,homeowner was working on his burner never replaced the gaskets after he removed the burner man what a mess he was attempting to clean his Smith boiler. Well the xtra time it took to straighten it out cost more than a routine cleaning or should i say tune-up .Most times I service a oil furnace or boiler I never see the homeowner again til the next year if you enjoy this field so much why not get trained and get a job in HVAC??

Bruce M_2

Chris

The important thing you need to do is to identify the make and model of your boiler. You do not have a furnace. A furnace is a hot air unit and a boiler is a hot water unit. Once you have opened up a nozzle you have compromized the spray pattern. You need to find the correct nozzle for your Carlin oil burner. You should also start using a sludge remover in your oil tank. HD sells that. If you post a picture of your boiler there will probably be someone who can identify it. The Carlin oil burner should have a data plate.