Oil HW Furnace draft/flue shuddering

Frenchie

I must disclose I am not an oil tech. I am a homeowner that services his own oil boiler. I suggest you replace that 10 foot copper line, put in a new nozzle the size and pattern that is correct for your applicattion, put in a new tank filter, and make sure the boiler's heat exchanger and chimney base are not clogged with soot. I would bet that you would be okay then. I am not qualified to give you this advice legally, just stating what I myself would do. I am in rural Wisconsin and our local service is such a joke that I now do it all myself. Go figure as soon as I maintain it now there are no more problems. This isn't a dig at any of the fine professionals on this site, there just are not quality guys in every area.

Chris Leger

Oil HW Furnace draft/flue shuddering

Hi, I have an oil furnace of unknown origin & vintage. I would guess it is about 20 years old. The only name I can find on it is "Carlton," on the burner. The furnace heats the house via hot water baseboard.

This morning, it started making a shuddering sound, so loud that at first I thought it was a loud truck parked outside. I've been down there looking at it for a while, and what seems to be happening is:

Furnace starts and runs normally. The blower kicks on, and the roar of the oil flame can be heard. Runs this way for 10 or 15 seconds or so, at which point the flame/combustion "roar" starts to make a sort of shuddering sound, as if the flame were intermittent. This is accompanied by the draft/flue/counterweighted-door-thing vibrating & flapping very rapidly, with exhaust escaping past the damper into the room.

My instinct is that I Have a clogged filter or screen somewhere (???) as the furnace will start and run normally for a brief period, then resume its shuddering, as if it were starved for fuel(???)

Still, I have little doubt that I'm wrong. Thanks in advance for any tips. Can't afford a service call, let alone a new furnace... I have to solve this one myself.

Leo_14

How Long has it been

Chris,

How long has it been since it has had it's annual service? It does sound like a clogged filter but it can be a bad burner coupling, clogged oil line, bad nozzle. You really can't afford not to have it serviced. It will only get worse and could soot up your house. Have someone come in and do an annual service it will solve the problem and get you set for the winter. Once the work is done it has to be checked with combustion test equipment. Just the fact you had to come here and ask shows you are in over your head. Money spent will be money saved in the long run.
I wish you the best finding a solution,

Leo

Jim Davis_3

Could be a bad pump, leaking fitting, dirty filter, plugged oil line, lots of things. Sound like it needs a good service call.

Chris Leger

Thanks Leo & Jim,

It's probably been 3 or 4 years since it was serviced.... poorly-service.

This is my second time owning an oil/HW system, after about ten years off in a propane/HA system (trouble-free bliss.)

My old oil house was a PITA as well... used to have to remove & clean the electrodes every few weeks, year after year (about ten years in that house.) And this was after paying to have it done several times in a row. Finally decided to save a few bucks and start doing it myself.

In my present case, I'm in a ~2500 sq ft house with 7 (!!!) zones, including the one for the passive water heater. One for every @#$%& room. Have a recurring problem with scale in the boiler... had a guy out a couple of times to bleed the zones... last time he said it was because the (three) air-bleed things at the tops of the pipes were loaded with scale and were leaking... he replaced them. On a subsequent visit, he shook his head, and told me he simply closed them.

I've since opened them (replaced them again today, BTW) and have gootten pretty quick at bleeding all seven zones, if I do say so. I'm kind of past the point of being willing to pay for amateurish attempts at a repair. I figure I might as well @#$% it up myself.

I appreciate your advice re: paying for service, but as I say, at this point, I'm about ready to tear the thing apart and edumacate myself a bit further... cold season doesn't start for some time yet, here in NH. A few days of cold showers can only make me stronger, or something, right?

This is the last time I buy a house with oil heat, so help me.

Thanks once again for your replies.

Leo_14

Chris

Chris,

You need to find the right company just like a Doctor. I have been doing oil for 12 years. Occasionally there are call backs but unless it is an antique anything can be fixed. In the case of your air problem, once you get past the flame (oil or gas) it's the same. If your system has been let go 3 or 4 years it definately needs servicing. Even gas is recommended to be serviced every couple years. Sure they will run but are the safeties working, is carbon monozide being spilled into the home. Anything with a flame needs some service.

Leo

Chris Leger

Thanks again, Leo,

Turns out I have a rather stubborn blockage somewhere along the 10' of copper line running from my tank to the burner.

Part of this is my fault... I opened the filter at the tank, and the element inside was enslimed in something that looked to me what I imagine crude oil must look like. Tied wiping it off, and still no go... same shuddering symptom as before.

THEN, I got the bright idea to try running it without the filter element. Smart. Ran for about 10 seconds and then died, and wouldn't fire again.

So then I pulled the injector/ingniton thingy out. It looked pretty nasty, but I cleaned it all up, removed the pitting on the electrodes, made sure I had a clear path through the nozzle, tube, etc, and put it all back together.

Still nothing. So I went back to the fuel - shut the valve at the tank, and removed the fitting at the burner. Opened the valve at the pump, expecting a gusher of oil over by the furnace, and - nothing.

Removed the line entirely, took it outside, and no amount of huffing or puffing can get breath down through that line.

So, job one tomorrow is to either find someone with a compressor, or else a trip to Home Depot for some new fuel line fixings.

Beyond that, I suppose I may still need to mess with the fuel path out at the end of the burner... not sure what's going in in there - my guess is it's a pump - I may find out tomorrow, if it still won't run with a clear external fuel line, which will mean that my ill-considered experiment with no filter element allowed some black goo to make its way in there, but I'm hopeful, because the main line is clogged but good. Maybe nothing ever made it to the "pump."

Anyhow, I figure I'm getting close.

Re: finding a doctor, I haven't managed that either. I'm in my 40s, and I understand that they start some intrusive shenanigans in the office at this stage - my religion (lapsed Catholic) requires that I die a virgin, so no doctors, and after many hundreds of $$$, no more local furnace guys.

Many thanks once again, Leo and Jim.

Leo_14

Gee I live on the MA border

Gee,

I live on the Mass border and you said you are in NH. Maybe now is the time to go out on my own.

Leo

Chris Leger

Could be. I used the big oil co. in Ashburnham, Mass, back when I lived there. If you're local, you'll know who they are. I won't name them here. Many visits to fix my pitted ignition electrodes. I started to wonder if they had the voltage too high or something... like I wrote before, I eventually took to cleaning them up myself.

Up here, we're in sort of the same boat. The oil cos perform service, but my luck has been bad. I'm sure there are some great independents out there, I just don't have any idea who they are. I'm about 45 minutes from the Mass line, north of Fitchburg.

J.C.A._3

Chris

Do yourself a favor...stop messing with it and save some money. (I think you may have heard this before!)

Go to the top of the page at signing on...and look for the "Find A Pro" section. If you can't find some one close....move your distance.

You ARE in over your head, and will cause the cost to rise if you keep on trying to "FIX" this by yourself.

I'm not trying to be a dink, but you are digging a hole that you will be hard pressed to fill, and the cost will certainly be less if you get a pro in there now. JMHO. Chris

Leo_14

Small world

I live around the corner from the company you mention although I work for another one. We travel southern NH a lot so I am sure I know the area you are from.

Leo

Chris Leger

No way, man.

Forked over too many dollars to the "pros" already. Then they came back, and I paid them again. Then we did it again. And again.

This way is cheaper, even if it means dirt under my fingernails. If I @#$%& it all up completely, then I'll duly accept another porking to undo the mess I will have made.

Until then, I'm getting more expert at these systems as I go. Nothing wrong with that.

### EDIT ###

Just did as you suggested... nearest pro listed is in Lowell, MA. That's going to be economical. He's 30 miles away. As if there aren't any techs in Nashua or Manchester? Shyah!

I suspect I'm 10' of copper tubing (and a flaring tool) away from hot showers.

Chris Leger

I'm in New Boston, right off rte 13. From Townsend, it goes, Brookline, Milford, Mont Vernon, and New Boston.

FYI, I never had a problem with the big oil company in Ashburnham - I just got tired of seeing them. We lived on Sunset Lake.

Leo_14

New Boston

Chris I am familiar with New Boston as my wife has relatives there. Now, there is a device on the market slang name black box as it records everything a burner does. It's real name is Onwatch by Onwatch Electronics. That company is in your town. I can't speak for them but they may have some local companies that they deal with who may be of help to you. If a company is progressive enough to use an Onwatch they are a company that trys.

Leo

Chris Leger

Holy cow... that's interesting. Good tip. If I get into trouble, I'll give them a call for a referral. Thanks!

Chris Leger

Thanks Jason,

I agree. I Know there are good guys out there, I just don't know who or where they are. Like you, things have been working better for me since I started taking care of this thing myself.

Tomorrow, I'll be putting in a new filter, new line, and I'll pull the pump (looked it up, it's a "Sundstrand") to check the screen. If they have nozzles at Home Depot, I'll pick one up, but mine looks good. I took the little sintered bronze filter off it... it all looked spotless when I put it back together. Made a reassuring "pffft" sound when I blew through the orifice.

I'm also going to vaccuum out the heat exchanger. The chimney is clear - I checked that this morning.

Many thanks once again to all for your replies.

Techman

Chris

listen to THESE pro's,cleaning the electrodes every couple of weeks on your other system shows you need some basic training.If the oil line is plugged,then the junk is probably in the tank ,filter,pump screen ,pump ,hi press oil line and nozzle. That's a lot of checking/testing for a H.O. to attempt by himself w/o instruments.I do not beleave any self respecting oil guy/company would not be professionaly embarrassed by a "call back" with the problems as described by you.If you are looking for a do-it-all in an hour or so ,good luck.Doing it all by your self with very limited skills and knowledge, good luck.No dis intended or meant!!!!Connect w/ Leo,or another pro!

J.C.A._3

Like the FRAM oil Filter guy used to say....

Pay me now...or pay me later.

I see that you're going to do it yourself...one way or another. Best of luck.


I, and the many pro's here have given you the best advice. You've chosen to ignore it, and I know what the outcome will be.

My advice is to PLEASE NOT ask for any advice from us. You're going to do it your way....and we are all just money grabbing dirtbags.

You just haven't found the right one ....yet.

When you FINALLY have to call a pro...don't come crying here.

Again. you've been given the best advice. JCA

Chris Leger

Who says my skills are limited?

Chris Leger

Jesus, why the vitriol?

I never said anyone was a money-grubbing dirt-bag. The issue here is that I have not had good luck with the service folks I've gotten in the past, and I don't want to throw good money after bad.

Your advice is "hire a pro." In my very first post, I stated clearly that I wasn't going to hire anyone.

I'm an engineer by trade, and I've designed systems that are orders of magnitude more complex than this one. A few hours standing there LOOKING at it, never mind the docs, is about all that is needed for an honest 80%+ understanding of this oil heat system.

Are you saying that the value of this board to the lay consumer (like me) is to be advised to seek a pro?

"Haven't found the right one yet" indeed. How many hires would you think is a reasonable number before I tackle it myself?

If your thin skin wears through when you find someone looking for info that you think should be reserved to those in your trade, you're in real trouble.

J.C.A._3

Thin Skin....?

No chance. I'm just stating my opinion.

Engineer, or whatever you think of, or call yourself....You're asking questions that could/would be simply answered by a REAL oil tech.

In the time it's going to take you to fix this, it would be repaired by a real oil tech. in short order.

I'm thinking your pay scale might be a bit more than a REAL OIL TECH. Maybe paying someone will take less time...thereby saving you some dough in the long run.

I'm not rushing to judgment. I have been on the wrong end of what you're thinking too many times...and I'm trying to save you some cash. Get it? JCA

Chris Leger

Well, I don't buy any of it.

You wrote that I was "in over my head" and "digging a hole" when in fact I'm working toward a solution.

I assumed that the guys my oil co(s) sent in the past were "REAL" techs, and yet, here I am.

Once more, despite my having written in my very first post that I could not afford a service call, you are making assumptions and baseless assertions re: finance and economy.

In each of your posts, you insist that I can't fix this myself, and that I need to hire someone, when the opposite is true.

You have committed error after error, so I must ignore your opinion and advice.

Rather than hanging around here, wringing your hands over consumers seeking technical help with their systems, I suggest you might better spend your time working to rid your trade of incompetent "technicians" like the many I have had work on my systems - assuming you can't be counted among them.

tommyoil

What skills

I'm with Chris here. You asked, they offered, and you thumbed your nose at their advice. You may not have limited skills, but your knowledge in this instance is limited or you wouldn't be here to begin with, agreed? Wiping off a filter and re-installing it evidence of that. Working on any combustion equipment without COMBUSTION TEST EQUIPMENT is also evidence of that, as you will find out down the road. THEN, I'm sure you'll be back here whining about how outdated oil heat is. Just because you have had bad luck with your service techs, you seem to have broadstroked an entire industry. My brother in law is an "engineer". Has to do everything himself. Yet, when he cant seem to handle something as simple as on oil burner service issue, he critiques and critcizes those who are there to help. And for the record, Chris' skin is far from thin. He's also
one of the most helpful and well respected members of this community, so I'd say its absolutely your loss for not paying heed to his advice. We hold engineers in high regard around here( we do... really) Just ask anyone.I say go ahead and fix it yourself. Just make sure that your smoke and CO alarm all work and put the fire department on speed dial. Let us know how the home depot nozzle works out.

Jim_47

Why can't we all Just get along???

Just got done filling one of my teeth with spackle and I'm ready to take a look at my hernia.
I have been called in to a homeowners house and seen the carnage of a do it yourselfer. I was told I was the first guy allowed in in years because the last guys couldnt fix it in just one visit. AND, AND I could see why! Picked my tool bucket up and told the homeowner I could not fix all their problems in one visit either, there is not enough hours in just one day!. since he thought he had his fill of tradesmen telling him what was wrong, I went to the truck and took out my estimating pad. Wrote an estimate for ALL the work required to bring the system back to a "good,and safe" state of repair. THe estimate was over $2k. High pressure blowoff plugged, burner not firing, even the backflow preventer was plugged. Oh, and by the way, only 5psi on the boiler gauge. I was there so I might as well write it up. Had him sign for the estimate, and since he has not been my customer, I charged him for the estimate. Funny thing is I never got paid for the estimate. A few months later I got a call from a friend of mine saying he was asked to give an estimate there for a cracked boiler replacement. Seems the boiler was dry fired. We you cant run a car on bald tires for ever, and I need to get back to my hernia before my tooth hurts again.

Chris Leger

Nice to see one of my detractors has a sense of humor.

Chris Leger

Once more, I asked for advice re: the nature & possible cause of the problem I am having (which I got, thanks, Leo & Jim Davis.)

In my very first post, I stated clearly that I can't afford any more service calls, and that I need to fix this myself. I am not "thumbing my nose" at the several folks who ignored what I wrote in plain English and suggested I pay for a service call and not fix it myself, but their recommendations fall outside the scope of the information I'm looking for.

Nor have I "broadstroked" an entire industry. As I have pointed out, my reluctance to make a call & write a check is borne of some experience with repeated visits and worsening equipment. That last guy I had out here had the tools, the truck, the bucket and the boots, and I must have pumped a pound of boiler in the form of scale out onto my lawn through a hose a couple months after he was through.

I have been criticised for cleaning my electrodes repeatedly in the past, yet I learned that trick from the guys who came in the big trucks with my oil company's logo painted on the sides. Watched them do it over and over.

Obviously, their lack of skill is not universal - two posters here (Leo & Jim Davis) had their finger on the problem immediately, after reading my poorly-written description. I do not doubt that there are many more here who could do the same.

Your Chris is a petulant d-bag. "don't come crying," etc. His concern is that those in his trade are seen as "money grabbing dirtbags." His words. He implies that I should keep hiring technicians until I find "the right one." Sadly, my time and money are limited. You go ahead and respect him.

Once more, many thanks for the several helpful replies.

Jim Davis_3

Based on other posts, the company that supplies your oil may not be the one you want working on your equipment. Your frustrations are well founded. Obviously your continuous problems were because of technicians that are poorly trained. I just trained a whole company in Bedford, NH, back in April. They are only one of two companies in your state that have been trained in 21st century technology. Hard to convince people that what was done 20 years ago was wrong then and still is. Let me know if you still have questions later on.

Tim P._2

As a fellow homeowner, I just want to point out that there are good points on both side of the fence here.

I think Chris is capable of tackling what he is undertaking here.

Secondly, having been years since the last service, I think you should get somebody in there before heatin season.

With oil being what it is, I know I can't afford to throw 5% efficiency out the window. Only somebody with a combustion meter is going to be able to do that.

If you can find a company that actually has a meter (I too paid hundreds of dollars for a vac/nozzle/filter service, with no combustion test), I'd bet you've found somebody who can do a good job for you.

If your boiler hasn't been serviced in a few years, you definitely have some soot in there (probably a lot, given the way it has been running lately) that should be cleaned out.

Tim

ps- i'd also like to thank Jim Davis for being so tolerant of us HO's. professional as always...

Chris Leger

Thanks for the vote of confidence, Tim.

Be assured is wasn't misplaced. I finished earlier this morning. Tools are put away. Furnace runs smoothly and quietly.

My last concern (apart from my house burning down as TommyOil suggested) is the flue damper setting. I set it to "Normal."

Someone (certainly not one of the "pros" so often mentioned here) had the counterweight on the "horizontal" side, even though my flue runs vertically. If it was in fact a pro who did this, I suspect his choice proceeded from some alchemical secret that will never be revealed to the likes of me. Still, in amateur home-owner fashion, I moved it over to the "vertical" side, in the middle setting.

Now that things are running again, I'm going to shop around for someone with the magical tools to optimise this thing. Tim's right (again) - I can't afford to send 5% up the chimney.

Once again, thanks very much to everyone who posted with helpful replies. Hot showers tomorrow AM!

P.S. Thanks Jim Davis for mentioning the company in Bedford. I would be interested in knowing who they are - Bedford is 10 miles from here.

My best regards,

Chris Leger

tommyoil

I'd be pissed too

if it took however many service calls to diagnose a plugged fuel line. Clearly a waste of their time and your money. Any idiot could do that but it took an engineer in this case. I applaude your effort. The fact that you have been performing your own service on both of your oil fired systems throughout the years clearly puts you way ahead of the curve. Dare I say, almost an expert. Maybe a change of career is in order since I dont know of any engineers who CANT afford a furnace nevermind a service call. I can tell that you have a keen eye for detail too. No maintenance for four years is a testament to that. But, being an engineer, I dont need to tell you about the potential dangers of un-maintained heating equipment. The bottom line is that your lack of knowledge with regard to this field is scary. You have service on an emergency basis only (or so it seems), By your own admission you have had NO service other than emergency calls in FOUR YEARS! You make adjustments to combustion without testing. Then, you come here and minimize what has taken in some instances a lifetime to learn, and then level personal attacks against one of the most respected guys here. The reason you are referred to the find a pro is because if JCA were to give you advice (when it was crystal clear that you were and are in over your head)and something were to go wrong(and it will), you'd come back here and start a complaint thread and rail aginst him. Thats fine you got your boiler running. An engineering marvel indeed. But, its still an unmaintained, untested, unit in a living space (and thats something the home depot nozzle wont help you with.) I'll keep my eyes on the newspaper. Shouldn't be long.

Frenchie

Chris

Just out of curiosity, which parts did you change? could be that it was just the plugged line after all, but I wonder what the pump screen ended up looking like, and was there a lot of soot inside the unit? Also just as a side note the company that installed my boiler never did a combustion test on it. I called the other 4 people that do service in my area, and none of them have test equipment. So my boiler remains untested as well. I agree with the guys here that say test everyting, and for good reason, But once again that isn't possible in every area. My boiler runs great, produces zero smoke (I have that tester) and after every season it is clean as a whistle inside with just minimal fly ash. I literaly can't get the combustion tested, yet I feel perfectly safe with it living in my basement. I am more worried what kind of CO my gas oven produces than my boiler.

Chris Leger

I've had no service whatever since the last pro looked at it and screwed it up. It might have been less than 3 years, can't remember.

My car is past due for an oil change, and there are leaves in my gutters. Just because I can write a check for a furnace doesn't mean I can afford it. I can't afford to trade with companies that employ incompetent workmen. Well, I can a couple of times, but after that, I can't.

Thanks for the kind words. If you and the esteemed JCA are representative of the best among your trade, I feel better than ever about tackling and solving this problem myself.

Chris Leger

Jason,

I changed the filter element and gasket, and the copper line from the tank to the pump. I stuck with the nozzle I had. It cleaned-up just fine.

There was quite a bit of soot in the box. I vaccuumed it out, but I don't think I got much more than half of it before I started running out of time. At the risk of sending a couple of the fellows who posted above into hysterics, (hold your water, ladies,) when I have time, I plan to pull the burner off and try going at it from the bottom. I think it will take a few cleanings and some running-in at this point to get it to the point yours is, in terms of cleanliness.

The pump screen wasn't too bad. Some more sludge in there, though it may have been passed just yesterday when I stupidly ran it without the line filter element in place.

Like you, I have to say that despite all the hand-wringing going on above, I feel better about the condition of my system now that I've been through it.

Thanks again.

R Mannino

Homeowner Oil Service

Hello Chris

I had some similar experiences with the oil company that I had. I also decided that I was going to go at it myself. It's not a bad thing really, but that's not what the boys (professional oil servicemen) have the problem with, its your lack of formal training, with regard to oil service and the lack of the equipment required to perform the task.

I too was not satisfied with the level of performance of the service department, but I chose to educate myself with regard to the piece of equipment that needed attention. One of the reason that I ended up here and a few other places on the internet. The fact that you came here means that you know that you need more information and education in the particular area your dealing with.

I know how you feel, but what I did was to take a couple of night classes about oil heat. I learned quite a bit on top of all the things learned here and elsewhere. Bought a few books and some tools. I have the pressure gauges, the smoke pump, vacuum gauge, draft gauge and most importantly the electronic combustion analyzer. Without these tools it is like trying to set the timing on your car without a timing light.

I don't think the gentlemen here have any ill will toward your attempt to take on this task, just how your going about doing it. They would also prefer you or your family not get hurt in the process, remember we're playing with FIRE! These guys are ok I've been "lurking" and hanging out here for quite some time and they always try to help unless they think someone might get hurt.

You can do it, but you need some tools and some training. What's the draft, the smoke, the CO2, the CO and the stack temp. ALL OF THESE THINGS EQUATE TO MAXIMUM EFFICIENCY.

I'm looking forward to a year where I will burn less than 500 gallons of oil. I can thank all the guys here, I'll let you know in December.

Good Luck Chris and listen to these guys they know what they're talking about.

Ron

tommyoil

Couldn't be that bad

if the pro (who you held in such high regard) kept your outdated junk running for three years. Take some advice from a fellow homeowner. Ron has been on these boards for awhile. Unlike you, he took it upon himself to learn about the operation of his system and how best to SAFELY work on his own equipment. He knows what the "ignition thingy" (your words not mine) actually does. He also know that adjusting draft MUST be done accurately with a gauge, not just by adjusting a counter weight to "normal" (again, your words). Hes aware of what you meant when you told us that your "Carlton" burner was malfunctioning. That said, since you have chosen to perform unsafe, untested, repairs on combustion equipment without so much as a smoke test(nevermind full combustion anaysis)your lack of knowledge has become evident and your lack of concern is dangerous. Ron, on the other hand is a well respected member of this community(and on the other boards as well). He has taken the time to do it right with the bottom line being safe operation. I wish all homeowners I dealt with were alot more like him. Actually, he may have a leg up on alot of guys I work with in the field. While the majority of homeowners are just like YOU, in my perfect world they'd be just like him. They would care more about the safety of their family and neighbors then they would about the cost of the repair or the cost of the equipment to properly repair as an educated homeowner (Something you clearly are not). Aside from the malfunctioning, unserviced boiler, clogged gutters and no oil change make it perfectly clear to me exactly how you operate. Run it till it breaks and then blame the last guy who touched it for everything up to and including the Kennedy assasination. After near 30 years I've seen hundreds if not thousands exactly like yourself so your engineering act neither fools nor impresses me. If the type of service you have described here is how you operate, then I may never drive over a bridge again without waiting for it to collapse. I'll thank an engineer when it doesn't....I promise.

Chris Leger

Thanks Ron,

I doubt I'll make the same level of commitment you have, but I may look into this stuff a bit further.

From my perspective, some of the contributors above are not the sort of people I'd want fixing my lawn mower, let alone working on my furnace. Over the course of these many posts, we've come from "YOU'RE IN OVER YOUR HEAD" all the way to being told by one of these learned professionals that "any idiot" could have made the repair I made. Seems I can't win.

From the outset, I said I'd fix this myself, and now I have. Any speculation that there's anything unsafe about the present state of my equipment (beyond the inherent) is idle guessing on the part of anyone who hasn't actually quantified its performance, first-hand.

The professionals who have showed up here in the past have come equipped not with books, meters, gauges and pumps, but with a white plastic bucket full of hand tools. The likelihood that the furnaces in the homes around me are serviced by these same professionals, and the fact that they haven't burned down (yet!) tells me there is a reasonable margin of safety ENGINEERED into the design of these systems.

I have watched these professionals work. I paid time and again for a "professional" to clean the ends of the ignition electrodes in my burner, and have been criticised for failing to get at the root problem when I took over making that same repair.

And lest anyone think I'm dealing with amateurs, the companies I've dealt with for oil service are ALL among the most reputable, professionally-managed companies in my area. Never once did I chose a vendor based on economics - rather, in each instance, I wanted the system fixed once, and fixed right. Never had any real luck, or a repair that held for very long.

So, with respect to you, Ron, I will not listen to these guys above. Since my local service people have proven incompetent, the "argument" of the posters above, in telling me that "I" can not fix my system, is tantamount to saying that it can't be done, except perhaps by them. But it turns out they were wrong, again. My system is now running as well as ever.

In his recent reverie, TommyOil states his wish that all homeowners were like you, Ron, which is patently ridiculous. The number of homeowners who will go to the lengths that you have is practically zero. In *my* ideal world, on the other hand, I'd have resort to competent technicians, and I wouldn't have to repair my own furnace. That's far less ridiculous, if I do say so.

And yet, here we are.

John Starcher_4

Well said, Tommy.

I agree with everything you said. It's rather arrogant of someone to come here and seek advice, and then start lobbing insult bombs just because he doesn't agree with the FREE advice he just received.

Wow.

tommyoil

Fixed?

If you call a band aid on a bullet wound fixed, then yes, its fixed. You continue to miss the larger picture though. NOBODY ever said that you cant address the problem. It is clear that you have. You continue to dismiss the need for combustion testing after any repair and are minimizing or totally avoiding the subject. The need to know exactly what is going on during combustion is without a doubt THE most important part of any repair on the combustion side of any heating equipment. The speculation is on your part. By not testing combustion after the repairs you have neither completed the job in a safe fashion NOR have you quantified the results of your so called repair. Your complaint that techs show up with no books,meters, or gauges has no merit. You didn't use them either so what would make your lack of commitment to doing whats right any different from theirs? Please stop trying to justify that what you did is a proper repair. Its not. And, while I respect your efforts, they fall far short of what is considered safe. I'm surprised that as an engineer, you are so ready to dismiss legitimate concerns and instead choose to beat the "I fixed it" drum as loud as you can. Theres LOTS of people like Ron in the real world and more every day. He doesn't dismiss or attack people who don't agree with him which is what you seemed to have done. Good luck with the lawnmower repair. But something tells me that with overflowing gutters, unchanged motor oil, and broken down heating equipment, you dont NEED a lawnmower. Just a guess though. Good luck. Sounds like you'll need it.

John Starcher_4

No, no, no....

...the nozzle "looked just fine." He should be good to go.

Chris Leger

I'm afraid I have to call BS on all of the above.

Re: the nozzle looking fine, is that all you've got? The collet around the orifice is pristine, and made of steel. Unless someone has been spiking my oil with water-jet media, or it was out of spec in the first place, it is still passing ~.8 gph.

Your remarks and the kind-hearted ones above that wished me luck with my "Home Depot nozzle" remind of the time the CATV technician told me that the answer to my connectivity problem was for him to replace all of my -3dB Danish-made Philips splitters with more crudely made Malaysian versions of the same thing. "You have to use our splitters."

Re: bullet wounds and Band-aids, so now my fuel blockage has reverted back from being something "any idiot" could fix, to being a "bullet wound?" And my removal of that blockage and restoration of my furnace's function only a "Band-aid?" What should I do? Replace my tank? Refine my own oil?

While I trust that combustion metrics are an industry best-practice, restoring the flow of fuel to my furnace and cleaning everything has degraded neither the performance nor efficiency of my system from the state it was left in by the last "real" technician who set it, nor even altered it appreciably from its original spec.

Naturally, I am wrong, and you "respected" professionals are right. Yet, given that the average 12-year-old paperboy could easily be made a competent technician in a matter of days, my own success doesn't surprise me.

That it does you is telling.

Many thanks once again to Jim Davis, Leo, Jason Best and Tim P.

John Starcher_4

Call it whatever you want, dude.

Good luck. I sincerely hope that you have been able to remedy your heating plant issues, and that your system provides you with years of trouble free service.