Off Topic...Kinda

Darrell

The other day a banner came up on this site for a DIY hydrogen generator for a truck. I followed the link for kicks, mostly 'cuz I'm paying 4.25 a gallon, and I have alot of very green customers who like to chat about this sort of thing. Anyway, I bought the download book and now I'm wonderring if any of you more experimenting types have done anything like this? The book is well-written and the project sounds intriguing.

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lownox

Consensus among my automotive engineer friends is that it is snake oil. Something about defying conservation of energy or something. Could be a fun experiment, but be prepared for disappointment in my opinion.

This seems like it is up there with magnets that mount to your fuel line to improve your mileage.

Ken Field

My son was going to become an installer for a soon-to-be millionare in our area but after researching a little, gave it up. The process requires water and a lot of heat which is provided by an electric element which is powered by the cars alternator. The alternators get fried by the current draw in short order. Further, the cars computer does not know enough to reduce the fuel injected because as far as the computer knows, air doesn't add energy to the combustion process. The hydrogen people are experimenting with chips for cars to reduce fuel input but that will probably void any waranty. The water can't be allowed to freeze either so it must be kept warm at all times. Either by leaving the heater on and discharging the battery or keeping the car inside. The short answer is what Steve said which is that the whole thing amounts to snake oil.

Ken

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Kevin O. Pulver_2

I was building/playing with one

that uses electrolysis rather than heat. How much electricity is used I don't know. If you could simply heat it up, the exhaust pipe would supply plenty of that- No?

Darrell

This particular "thingy" used electrolisis.

Many of my customers are a morph between "hippie wonderment" "European advanced technology" "the (supply whatever esablishment) is keeping us in the dark" and "it's all (supply your political action figure of choice) his fault"

The truth is very hard to come by on these things. The Internet is no help...no accountability. Seems these people all know somebody who knows somebody who is running their truck on sunlight or something equally as cheap and available but nobody has first hand information. Kinda makes me want to throw it all out and just drive my Chevy Express at 12MPG and be glad it starts every time I ask it to.

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The Wire Nut

Can

The Wire Nut

Can't fight the law(s)

Basic laws of thermodynamics can't be broken, no matter how well written the manual and endless gushing testimonies.

To break water down to its component parts takes energy, lots of it. Them bonds are tough and to produce the copious amounts of hydrogen necessary to provide fuel, even if it's an additive, will take more energy than it can produce. Basic physics. Energy can't be created or destroyed, just converted.

Gasoline converts to heat, and the process creates a rapidly expanding mixture of gases that push on the pistons. Some fuels do it better than others, hydrogen and oxygen powered the second stage of the Apollo Saturn 5 rocket because it packed a lot of wallop for the weight. But it was a nightmare to contain, control and store.

If the alternator is being used to provide the power for electrolysis then it is doing work, more than it would be just charging your battery. To provide that extra work, the engine has to work harder, and thus burns more gas. Adding hydrogen to the mixture may make the process marginally more efficient but it won't create energy from nothing. Just can't be done...

My apologies for my rusty physics, I am sure someone can give a clearer explanation, but the bottom line is "there ain't no free lunch..."

Alex

Unknown

Don't you think the (Japanese) geniuses that are making the wolds best internal combustion engines would have come up with this already?

You can't get hydrogen from heating water, and electrolysis uses more energy than it supplies. Unless the hydrogen is somehow boosting the combustion efficiency (catalytic?) this would have to be snake oil.

I know Dan needs the revenue(it makes this all possible), but I'v seen some really questionable ads here recently, I guess it's fine to take their money, but where an ad is placed can imply credibility. I would hate to think that the reputation of the wall is being used to sell something false. Furthermore it also go's the other way, these sort of ads can effect the integrity of the site, I look past them, but new visitors could easily view this as indicative of the quality of information here in general.