Gas burner in oil fired boiler

Long Beach Ed

Gas Companies

From what I have seen of Gas Company work around these parts, I'd opt for somebody with a license who knows what he is doing and is accountable.

Lee Covino

Is Gas Better Than Oil?

Maureen--
Gas has a lower BTU than oil, so you need more of it to get to the same temperature. However, just look at the cost of oil from a few years ago, and compare to today. My bill went up 241% since I first got a Burnham V-87 six years ago! So now, gas is the cheaper option. I'm planning a conversion to gas and keeping my boiler. If you read this blog, there's many comments on converting with just a gas gun. The way I figure it, we can always convert back. Your Burnham doesn't seem that much older, but you might want to check its efficiency before you make your decision.
--Lee

Lee Covino

Contractor vs. Gas Co.

I'm struggling with whether I should go private. The estimate is very high, considering that they are only doing a 22' run of pipe and installing the burner, which is free. On the other hand, if I stick with the gas co., they're permanently responsible for the installation and getting the permit. I'm not too worried on their talents, as they do a large part of NYC and have been on the planet longer than I have.

jimmac

lee's conversion

lee just curious,thought you said you were in S.I.,New york?
did they come out themselves to give you an estimate or they send you a private contractor?As an independent with ties to the utility in question i was just curious.And by the way in new york you need to hold a plumbing license to run gas lines!do you have a tank permit from the fdny right now?just asking!!!

Nikolasvipam

gas price

Yes the price of gas is regulated on "a pass on to the customer" service charge. The people who produce it though and the demand changes the price and the PSC regulated price gets added to the cost and passed on to you. That price is far from locked.

As for dual fuel power plants, yes they are pretty much standard for 1950's technology. New construction in poulated areas is almost exclusive to combined cyle generation which is basically 100% gas burn with emergency backup of kerosene. How much longer do you think those dual fuel dinosaur boilers next to you are going to be allowed to be run with the enviormental mood that is current?

Gas is going to be going through a serious price adjustment in the near future. It will not be based on supply as the reserves are there, we got plenty. The price adjustment will be on getting it to you as a pipe can only support a limited volume. If you don't build more price goes up, and no one wants LNG's or major pipelines in their backyard.

Ted Robinson

Oil boiler - gas conversion

LB Ed:
Are you able to contact me about converting my oil steam system?
I just over the Atl B Bridge, from you.

trobin_us@yahoo.com

Steve Garson_2

Rocky

Can he be contacted?

[Deleted User]

Oil to gas conversion

A quick read through the postings has been inspirational.
We, too, are aghast at the cost of #2 oil which is higher than gasoline per gallon (and more essential). When we bought our house (mid-Atlantic) 38 years ago my recollection is that oil was 10% of what it is today.

• In 2005 we had to install a new boiler - Burnham V84/159 with a Riello 40

• We have NG in the home -- a NG water heater 3-4 ft. from the boiler.

• Oil costs us $3.79/gal. NG is $0.34 per therm

• For each NG therm used there is a $1.10 supply service fee. (?!)

Guess I need help to figure out:

• If conversion can be accomplished?

• What might be the cost benefit pay-out period?

• What the savings might be from conversion?.
Thanks in advance.

Larry_53

Gun Conversion

I have a 25 yrs old gas burnham boiler that was oringially for steam heat. The house was converted to hot water baseboard and the boiler was converted to heat the water. I bought a new slantfin oil fired boiler cast iron two years ago but never got around to having it installed, as I was thinking of changing to oil but now with oil prices out of site I was looking to see if changing this boiler to a gas gun and Installing it as it will heat up less water as the old burnham holds 20 or 30 gals of water compared to the slantfin at 10. Can this be done and would it be cost feasible. The slant fin model # is LD-30-P 131000 MBTU/ Hr or would I be better off buying a new gas boiler

Unknown

Seeing as you have the boiler

and it has never been fired you will not have to clean or refurbish the boiler so installing a gas power burner in it will work out just fine. Make sure however that who ever installs it understand the process of converting to gas and what the requiremnets are. Ask if they have done this before and if so how many have they done. Get some references.

Do not get rid of the oil gun as you never know what is going to happen with fuel prices.

Larry_53

Gun Conversion

Thanks for the reply. Will this conversion be fuel efficent by converting the boiler. I am assuming so as it will take less time to heat the smaller amout of water than with the old steam boiler with a larger water qty.

Unknown

Fuel efficiency is based

on many things, such as does the installer fire the burner at maximum design input using a combustion analyzer to set it up. Has a heat loss been done on the house and if steam a determination of square feet of radiation. The output of the boiler has to match or slightly exceed these measurements. Has the system given satisfactory comfort even though the cost of fuel has become an issue? Then it is up to the users to determine thermostat settings, usage and all other factors affecting operation. All things being equal with gas versus oil they can be equal in combustion analysis efficiency but the fact that the boiler holds less water can help the overall thermal efficiency (actual BTU transferred to the medium being heated). I hope this answers your question. The last thing is surcharges that oil or gas companies may be charging you in your area which are either included in the bill or are hidden.

Lee Covino

Jay--there's an oil to gas conversion chart offered by the US Dept. of Energy on an excel sheet:

www.eia.doe.gov/neic/experts/heatcalc.xls

I have a Burnham V87 circa 2002, and the gas company said it's new enough to just add the gas gun. In July 2007, when the oil cost was $2.639/gal, I used the chart. At that time, it showed that NG cost about 25% higher. But, at today's cost, there may even be some savings. Converting to the gas gun is going to cost me $1,500. The gas company gives the burner/gun for free. The contractor only has to run 25' of black pipe from my gas main and take out the oil burner, which I'll save in the event that the price of oil comes back to reality. However, I have vowed NOT to go through the next heating season using oil!
--Lee in Staten Island, NY

Larry_53

Thanks for the response

The house was converted to hot water a few years back and we converted the boiler also. I just wanted to make sure it would be cost feasible to install the new oil burner and convert it to a gas gun. We had size the house to the new boiler and we keep the house faily cool. We are in Mass.

Lee Covino

My Updated Opinion Letter to the media

To the editor:
As a homeowner of an older 2-family house in Staten Island, NY, I'm getting ready to spend my tax returns on a conversion burner to my existing 6 yr. old boiler. The price of heating oil has spiraled from $1.399 when I replaced my boiler in 2002, to $3.699 today, a 264% increase!! With the price of oil no longer attached to
any supply/demand realities, I'm simply NOT going to do another heating season with this product!

The inefficiencies of natural gas are now more than canceled by the price of home heating oil. And, the conversion burner -- if it gets me another 4 years or so
with my existing boiler -- is a prudent investment that no oil professional has been able to talk me out of over the past several weeks.

Curiously, the oil industry has recently begun a media campaign touting oil heat's attributes, at a time when the price would normally be going down instead of up. Like disel, heating oil is no longer cheaper than the price of regular gasoline for the car. These price structure changes are unprecedented and have only occurred over the past year or two. So, I'm now ready to say good-bye OPEC/speculators and hello domestic product!

In my opinion, homeowners should be stampeding to conversion before the next heating season is upon us. However, given the dearth of media coverage of this aspect as opposed to the price of gas for the auto, I'm not sure how many of us are thinking the same thing at this time.

In the end, I know I can always convert back to oil, if the price ever comes down to a reasonable level. But as it stands now, I know I'm making the right decision.

It certainly would be nice if someone in media had the courage to cover this important issue for homewoners in the Northeast...
--Lee Covino, Staten Island. NY

Charlie Masone

Maureen, if you have a V73 boiler why would you need more than one oil tank? I know that I cannot afford to fill my one 330gal tank

Greg761

Midco conversion

I Installed a Midco EC200 gun in my relatively new Weil-Mclain oil WG0-5 burner in 2011. It heats a 3 unit apartment building in Pennsylvania with radiators. Other than a recent issued of taking 5 minutes to clean the flame rod (which the gas company could not figure out), it's been the happiest work I have ever done.

The gas company just measured its efficiency at 86%. Whether that's combustion or heat exchange, I'm not sure. What I can tell you is my natural gas bill was approx $150 in Nov-Dec 2012  and a little over $250 for  Dec-Jan 2013. That's $400 for the meat of the heating season.  In prior years with oil,  my fuel costs were approx $4000/yr.

I paid $800 for the gun (seen them lower on Ebay) and $200 for piping, and installed all DIY. The gun seemed intimidating but was actually very, very easy. MY chimney was already lined when I initially installed the WGO-5.

So however one wants to measure efficiency, I'll measure it by noting the absence of an extra digit in my heating bills.